Remove this ad

Lead

Dec 2 15 11:19 AM

Tags : :

Hi everyone, I hope everyone is keeping well  holding fast their faith in God & things that are to come by means of His hand.
A friend emailed me the other day asking whether I had seen the excerpt in one of the watchtower's regarding Revelation 9  who they claim the locusts are. This is something I and a friend have spent some time studying via the scriptures.
I have also read Peal's articles regarding this too & emailed her to ask if she had seen this.
Below is the excerpt from the Watchtower:

Toward the end of the first century C.E., the apostle John received a vision of seven angels, each of whom sounded a trumpet blast. When the fifth angel blew his trumpet, John saw “a star” fall from heaven to earth. The “star” had a key in his hand with which he opened the shaft of an abyss. Thick smoke poured out, and from this came a plague of locusts. Rather than ravage vegetation, the symbolic locusts swarm against “those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.” (Rev. 9:1-4) John no doubt knew how devastating a locust swarm could be. Had not locusts plagued ancient Egypt in Moses’ day? (Ex. 10:12-15) The figurative locusts that John saw well illustrate anointed Christians proclaiming Jehovah’s powerful judgment messages. They are joined now by millions of companions with an earthly hope. Little wonder that our united preaching undermines the authority Satan exercises through his worldwide empire of false religion.

So in essence, if the GB are saying that the locusts are the 144,000 then surely they must see who the locusts king is, or don't they??
Their king is the angel from the bottomless pit & his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon—the Destroyer.


Pearl's reply:
Hello Daz,
I was a "Jehovah's Witness" from 1975-201? (Can't remember if I was DF in 2011 or 2012).
Anyway, during that time, I was diligent in preparing for meetings, and was fully familiar with their interpretations. Their publication which does a verse by verse coverage of Revelation, was used for "book study" three times during my participation. For each of those courses, I both prepared and heard while at the meeting, the published interpretations of Revelation. The teaching that the "locust-scorpions" are anointed, and that Jesus Christ is the "destroyer", were consistent during my inclusion in that Organization, so I am very familiar with them.
Yet these interpretations are not difficult to disprove.
Even if you examine excerpts from the one paragraph you sent me (I will underline them)...

"When the fifth angel blew his trumpet, John saw “a star” fall from heaven to earth."
Notice that they do not provide a scripture at the end of that sentence, to show who that fallen star is. That's because if the previous account of that fallen star is read (Rev.8:10-11), one can see that this is "Wormwood"... who poisons the waters. Every reference to wormwood in the Bible, is bad, and refers to leaders of God's people who mislead into idolatry (Jer.23:15; Amos5:7), not to Jesus Christ. "Falling", is not a good thing (1Cor.10:12; 2Pet.3:17).
To clarify, if the scripture the WT provides at the end of their comments is read
 (Rev.9:1-4), it can be seen that this occurs when the FIFTH angel sounds his trumpet... and it tells us that the star has already fallen (past tense, "had fallen"). It is when the THIRD angel sounds it's trumpet, that the star actually falls, at Rev.8:10-11). There is is clearly seen, that the fallen star, is "Wormwood". Note that the FORTH angel, shows that the heavenly bodies are darkened following the fall of Wormwood (Rev.8:12) (associated with spiritual harlotry Prov.5:3-5).
That is also the result of the star that has already fallen, when it releases the "locust-scorpions" (Rev.9:2).
Also notice the deceptive strategy in the way the WT words this phrase...

When the fifth angel blew his trumpet, John saw “a star” fall from heaven to earth
In truth, John did not see the star fall from heaven when the fifth angel blew his trumpet. It clearly says that it already "had fallenbefore the fifth angel blew his trumpet (Rev.9:1).
If we want to see the BIble's depiction of when the star actually falls, we must retrace our steps back, to Rev.8:10-11.
Just as Prov.5:3-5 pointed out, the mouth (teachings) of a Harlot are sweet as honey, but the after effect to those who ingest them, is as bitter as wormwood (Rev.10:10-11).
(LINK: "The Fallen Star")

"The “star” had a key in his hand with which he opened the shaft of an abyss."
Because they lack holy spirit, they just assume the obvious.... that there is only one key, and that there is only one holder. But we know, that the Devil has been killing from the beginning (John8:44; 10:10) (LINK: "Who holds a key to the Abyss"). He opened the abyss of death in Eden, and has the power to cause death, and to imprison every human being since then.
Jesus told us that he overcame the power of Satan to cause death (Heb.2:14-15; Rev.1:18). Yet death still kills. This is because salvation from the abyss is conditional, and does not come to all. Both Satan and Christ possess a key to death...
Satan opens it, and Jesus opens it... to rescue captives from it (Ps.103:4; 49:15; Rev.12:5; Luke4:18) (Rev.13:10,7; Luke21:24,22). Yet false prophets who mislead others into that pit, can also cause others death. When they have that authority power (key is the symbol), they too have a key to the abyss of death... to send captives there. I hope you can recognize these Biblical facts. If you don't see them clearly, let me know.
So... Wormwood  causes people to die... to be consigned to the abyss of death -Rev.8:11. Therefore, "wormwood" also gets a key to the abyss... the authority and power to open death-causing deception, and to cause people to come under the power of death (Matt.15:14). We see three identities exercising the power of the abyss (holding keys)... Satan, Wormwood (the fallen star), and Christ.
More than one person, can "open the shaft of the abyss", if they hold a "key".
Satan can give the key (authority and power) to those who do his will... He does use people (false prophets) to open deception and death/the abyss
(Rev.13:4; Matt.4:8-9; Rev.9:1,11).

"Thick smoke poured out, and from this came a plague of locusts."
The organization always used to point to Joel for their interpretation of the locust-scorpions. That is the right place to turn, for the many parallel traits between the locust-scorpions and the locusts of Joel  (LINK).
The WT has apparently stopped using the references in Joel, because both I and Obadiah have published the conclusion which Joel penned. If the references are followed through to the end, we learn that God destroys the locusts, and He compensates His people for the excessive punishment they suffered 
 (Zech.1:14-16; Rev.9:5; Joel 2:6; Rev.6:9) by the locusts persecution (Joel2:25-26). Rather than change this false doctrine, they simply divert their readers from the BibIe's truth, by now resorting to a reference in Exodus instead.
If we give scriptural consideration to the locust's scorpion tails, their nature also becomes clear (Rev.9:10; Eze.2:6; Luke10:19).
(LINK: "Tails, Stingers, Scorpions")

God is free to discipline His own people (to "seal" them as His own slaves) (Heb.12:6; Job 23:10).
At Zech13:9, God is said to discipline and refine "one third" before calling them His people.
If we return to Rev.9 to see how people respond to the discipline that chapter contains (including the locusts), we are told that "two thirds" do not repent/accept discipline/become refined (Rev.9:18,20-21). The "one third" is "killed" (Rev.9:15,18; 11:3,7; 6:9,11; John16:2; Mark13:12-14; 8:35). 

"Rather than ravage vegetation, the symbolic locusts swarm against “those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.” (Rev. 9:1-4)"
Of course, they fail to see the connection to Rev.7:3.
The "vegetation" is only guarded from "ravage" until the UNsealed, become sealed (1Pet.4:17 LINK).
Again, their lack of spirit makes them assume the obvious, which is not the deeper truth.
Although the "unsealed" seem rejected... in truth we are all unsealed, until we become so.
We see that once those faithful are sealed... the "ravage" does break out on the "vegetation" (Rev.7:3; 8:7) (Isa.5:24-25) (2Pet.3:7; Rev.20:15).

"John no doubt knew how devastating a locust swarm could be. Had not locusts plagued ancient Egypt in Moses’ day? (Ex. 10:12-15) "
No doubt, John did. In fact, they are the very cause of the Greatest Tribulation (Joel.2:2; Matt.24:21-22).

Just because God sent locusts upon the Egyptians...
does not mean that the locusts cannot come upon God's own people for discipline as well. The WT seems to think that discipline is only for others, that they could not be among the "unsealed" men, and so they conclude that the locust-scorpions must be themselves (Amos9:8-10; 1Thess.5:3; Rev.18:7).
(Amos9:9,1; Luke21:35; Rev.3:10; Matt.24:22,39)(Rev.12:15-16) ("Earth" LINK) ("Earth swallows River")
(Jer.1:14; 47:2-3; Mal.4:5-6; Job22:16; Luke6:48) (Gen.7:24; 8:3; Rev.9:10) << 150=5X30 (5 months X 30 days each = 150 days) (Matt.24:39)


As regards the rest of the paragraph....
"The figurative locusts that John saw well illustrate anointed Christians proclaiming Jehovah’s powerful judgment messages. They are joined now by millions of companions with an earthly hope. Little wonder that our united preaching undermines the authority Satan exercises through his worldwide empire of false religion."
....note that there are no scriptures (John7:18,16-17; 16:13; Rev.22:6).
Regarding, "They are joined now by millions of companions with an earthly hope"...
   ...where is there a scripture that states that the locusts are joined by others?
   ...where is there a scripture that shows that anything comes out of the locust's mouths ("proclaiming messages")?
Are not locust's mouths known for devouring and swallowing (Nahum3:15; Joel1:4; Ex.10:12-14) .... not giving forth?
No, a "plague/curse" of locusts are for destroying... not proclaiming life-saving truths. The locust-scorpions of Rev.9 are instead said to "sting".
The Bible clearly tells us the purpose of that power (1Cor.15:55-56) (Eze.2:6; Luke10:19) (Rev.9:10).  Those with stingers inject sin into their victims... sin that brings forth paralysis and death (Rom.5:12).  The identity of the "man of sin" who gains power over the unsealed anointed, is also described in 2Thess.2:3-4; Rev.13:7; 9:10.

The WT teaches that Jesus Christ is the Destroyer... Despite Isa.33:1 and Ex.12:23 (Job 2:6) (Luke22:31) (1Cor.10:10; 5:5)..
Yet, what do we expect?... Remember... the Wild Beast collective of Locust-scorpions is specifically spoken of as being blasphemous (Rev.13:5-6).
The "False prophet" who empowers that Beast to dominate the anointed (Rev.13:14-15,7), "speaks like a dragon" (Rev.13:11) and teaches "doctrines of demons" (Rev.16:13-16; 13:11; 1Tim.4:1).

There are many more scriptures which prove these things, but I hope the ones cited here are enough to convince you beyond doubt, that the Gentile WT is the "disgusting thing, standing in a holy place" (2Thess.2:4; Matt.24:15; Dan.11:16,21-45) (With Daniel, keep in mind that the vision is symbolic, and that the "North" is the Gentile Beast and the "South" are anointed leaders who have fallen from God's grace/Harlot/false prophet/Jezebel/Wormwood.

Thanks for writing to me. I hope you and your family are doing okay.

Love in Christ,
Pearl


My reply:
Thankyou Pearl for your reply. Yes I knew your were a JW for many years but I wasn't sure if this excerpt in the watchtower was a different understanding  that they may have had compared to years ago. I find it very strange that they think Christ is the destroyer! The king of the locusts.
They only need to do some research to realised who the destroyer is, Abaddon.
Yes of course I will post it at the forum.
We are all doing OK thankyou x

It is strange to me & also very worrying; frustrating that so many will accept the Watchtower's interpretation of Rev 9 & the locusts without question even though to me after studying it directly from the scriptures & also on reading your writing on this it is obvious that Christ is not the destroyer, if he was this makes him "Abaddon the destroyer", "the king of the locusts".
To me  for them to see Christ firstly as "the destroyer" baffles me, yes He has been given the authority to judge & carry out judgement upon us but to me it is clear that Christ is first & foremost the redeemer, not the destroyer! He desires all to come to know the Father like the Father He doesn't wish any to perish only to have life, life given via His vine.

Ephesians 1:7, We have redemption through his blood.
Hebrews 9:12, By his own blood … obtained eternal redemption for us.
Romans 3:24, Through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
Luke 1:68-69, Praise the Lord, the God of Israel, for he has come to visit his people and has redeemed them. He is sending us a Mighty Savior from the royal line of his servant David
1 Corinthians 1:30, For it is from God alone that you have your life through Christ Jesus. He showed us God’s plan of salvation & he was the one who made us acceptable to God & he made us pure and holy and gave himself to purchase our salvation. 

God Bless!
Daz


Dear Daz,
I am editing my reply, only to add links to the scriptures, so they can be read on-line.
Thank you for posting this information.
In Christ,
Pearl

Last Edited By: Daz Feb 17 16 3:38 PM. Edited 27 times

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad
Remove this ad

#1 [url]

Dec 3 15 8:12 AM

Hello Daz and Pearl - everyone!

I believe you are right Pearl, about the organization ceasing reference to locusts and the “preaching work”.  The most recent I have found is in the book “Jehovah’s Day”  published in 2006 -

"How, then, are you proclaiming this twofold message? The prophet Joel likened the work of God’s people to a series of plagues by insects, including locusts. (Joel 1:4) But why do we say that Jehovah’s people are like, of all things, swarms of insects? Because, as found at Joel 2:11, God identifies these insects as “his military force.” (God’s people are symbolized by locusts in the book of Revelation as well. See Revelation 9:34.) The work of the insects that Joel described was like a devouring fire, and in their path what seemed like “the garden of Eden” was turned into “'a desolate wilderness.'"(Joel 2:23) jd chap. 13 pp. 165-178

It continues in two succeeding paragraphs describing the persistence of each “locust” to stay on course, even under opposition, using Joel 2:7,8 and comparing it to sticking to the “ministry”.   Satan is so sly as he uses the very element at his fingertips to destroy, yet promotes it as a smoke screen of what is then perceived as righteousness.  How does one in the organization comprehend the comment of turning a garden of Eden into a desolate wilderness through their preaching work?  It just doesn’t make sense, especially since they declare the organization as a “spiritual paradise” –

How exciting it is to know that since 1919, Jehovah has allowed imperfect humans to work with him in cultivating, strengthening, and expanding the spiritual paradise on earth! w15 7/15 pp. 7-11

 Without a doubt, this organizational image has certainly created a spiritual desolate wilderness.  

“Because you were glad, because you rejoiced,
You destroyers of My heritage,
Because you have grown fat like a heifer threshing grain,
And you bellow like bulls,
12 Your mother shall be deeply ashamed;
She who bore you shall be ashamed.
Behold, the least of the nations shall be a wilderness,
A dry land and a desert.
13 Because of the wrath of the Lord
She shall not be inhabited,
But she shall be wholly desolate.
Everyone who goes by Babylon shall be horrified
And hiss at all her plagues.  Jer 50:11-13

 For the Lord will comfort Zion,
He will comfort all her waste places;
He will make her wilderness like Eden,
And her desert like the garden of the Lord;
Joy and gladness will be found in it,
Thanksgiving and the voice of melody.  Isa 51:3 

Thank you, Daz, for posting both yours and Pearl’s answers, it is well appreciated.
Love to everyone visiting this spiritual oasis!
peely

Quote    Reply   

#2 [url]

Dec 3 15 8:46 AM

Hiya Peely, I hope you & your family are doing well. It's my pleasure to share this as it is Pearl's too, Pearl rightly thought it would be beneficial to place the posts here on the forum for all to see for themselves.
Thankyou for your reply reply with the fitting references you kindly addes, very interesting indeed!

God Bless,
Daz

 

Quote    Reply   

#3 [url]

Dec 3 15 11:10 AM

"How, then, are you proclaiming this twofold message? The prophet Joel likened the work of God’s people to a series of plagues by insects, including locusts. (Joel 1:4) But why do we say that Jehovah’s people are like, of all things, swarms of insects? Because, as found at Joel 2:11, God identifies these insects as “his military force.” (God’s people are symbolized by locusts in the book of Revelation as well. See Revelation 9:34.) The work of the insects that Joel described was like a devouring fire, and in their path what seemed like “the garden of Eden” was turned into “'a desolate wilderness.'"(Joel 2:23) jd chap. 13 pp. 165-178

Hi Peely,
Thanks for posting this!

LIES preached by "jws" cannot show those they are preaching to,that their beliefs are wrong. Lies cannot "desolate " lies. If "jws" still preach 1914,then that cornerstone doctrine is a reflection of the fact they are messengers,not of Jah,but of the GB who is the false prophet.

"jws" themselves are so blinded by the false prophet AND not listening to Christ through Anointed being faithful to him,they dont realise this very verse applies to Anointed within their own organisation who are not listening to Christ. The "garden of eden" THEY think they have is being shown to be a wasteland by Christ's Angel messengers,because "jws" are listening to satan through the GB.

 For the Lord will comfort Zion,
He will comfort all her waste places;
He will make her wilderness like Eden,
And her desert like the garden of the Lord;
Joy and gladness will be found in it,
Thanksgiving and the voice of melody.  Isa 51:3

Isnt this a great scripture? AFTER it has been exposed that Zion,Anointed within "jws' are exposed as a "waste place",He will via truth from Christ's messenger Angels,help Anointed to re-build that wilderness with truth...which they DONT have at the moment. But unless the "foodshortages and pestilences" are exposed as really being upon Anointed,then the re-building cant happen. It still stuns me when i realise that verses like this that the GB applies to other religions, in fact applies to THEM and primarliy to Anointed within jws! The arrogance jws have over their "spiritual paradise" is what i see in many jws i still know. They cant possibly be wrong with the GB running it! So when the royal commission in Australia has exposed corruption within the organisation,instead of seeing it as a reflection it doesnt have Jahs spirit..that the GB DONT have Jahs spirit,they just see it as "persecution from satan". How convenient!

I wish i could remember a scripture where Jah says there would be things he would orchestrate in this time,that when people find out about it,it would amase and shock them. All the GBs false explanantions about devistation upon other religions by their lying preaching work,is talking about the pathetic spiritual condition of Anointed under satans Harlot. What a shock that is! Who would have thought this to be true amongst jws? I was one for over 25 years...its hard to wrap your hear around. Yet listening to Christ through His faithufl anointed,it can only apply to Anointed within jws.
Greetings to all!
JD

Quote    Reply   

#4 [url]

Dec 3 15 12:50 PM

Dear Peely,
When I read your words, I think of one of the deceptions that misleads "JW's" into thinking they ("locusts"), are God's anointed messengers of truth.....
It is the scriptural fact that the locusts are called God's army. (Joel 2:25) Yet we also read that this army is being sent, "among YOU".
When God speaks to the Bible reader, who does He refer to as YOU?
Is He speaking TO His people, or others? 
Eze.14:21-23,5 helps us with this...
 “For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: How much worse will it be when I send against Jerusalem my four dreadful judgments—sword and famine and wild beasts and plague—to kill its men and their animals! 22 Yet there will be some survivors—sons and daughters who will be brought out of it. They will come to you, and when you see their conduct and their actions, you will be consoled regarding the disaster I have brought on Jerusalem—every disaster I have brought on it. 23 You will be consoled when you see their conduct and their actions, for you will know that I have done nothing in it without cause, declares the Sovereign Lord. I will do this to recapture the hearts of the people of Israel, who have all deserted me for their idols.”

For confirmation that this refers to the discipline found in Revelation;
compare these plagues to Rev.6:7-8
"When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” 8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth."
The Lamb does lead God's "four dreadful judgments". But it is upon his own priesthood, "Jerusalem" (LINK to scriptures) (Mal.3:1-3; Rev.3:17-18) (Isa.5:24-25) as discipline for their idolatry!
(Rev.2:20; 13:8,7; Matt.24:15; 2Thess.2:4; Dan.8:11-12,24-25; 11:31,36; Luke21:24,22)
When Joel and Rev.9 describe the locust army as coming upon the "earth"/whole land (LINK), we learn that this discipline upon God's own people, is well deserved.
He allows the torment, in the hope that it will yield righteousness (Heb.12:5-13) (Luke21:22,36; Mal.3:2-3).
Again,
It is the lack of humility and false sense of "peace and security" with God, that keeps them from perceiving their need for repentance (Matt.13:15) (John8:43,47).
Although we are suffering the things foretold, we count ourselves "happy". Why? Because although this Tribulation is grevious enough to cause the donning of sackcloth;
we do "see" these things (Matt.13:16-17)  and trust that God is our Rewarder and Comforter
(Rev.22:12,7; Ps.94:12-17; Jer.29:10-14; Matt.5:1-12; 2Thess.1:6-8; Dan.7:22; James5:10-11; Heb.6:12).
(Zech.1:12-17,16; 2:1; Amos7:7-8; Isa.28:17; 30:18; Rev.21:15,19-21; Isa.54:10-13)

 

Last Edited By: Pearl Doxsey Dec 3 15 2:03 PM. Edited 9 times.

Quote    Reply   

#5 [url]

Dec 3 15 3:32 PM

Revelation 16:9 They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him.

"one mans feast is another mans famine" Because of an open heart that wants to repent,the faithful accept the "intense heat" of so much new truth (fire) from Christ,but other Anointed,instead of accepting the gifts of truth/fire, "cursed the name of God",because the judgment against them reflected their hatred of Truth. They have become like the Harlot. Not willing to repent.

Revelation 9:21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts." without Christ explaining this,who would have thought this applied primarliy to the GB? unthinkable,yet true. The GB is guilty of spiritual spiritism. This is where she gets her backing for credibility. From the "doctrines of demons".

1Ti 4:1
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

Quote    Reply   

#6 [url]

Dec 5 15 6:27 AM

Thanks for that JD.
Notice that both scriptures (Rev.16:9 and 1Tim.4:1), both contain the word, "seared".
1Tim.4:1 explains that this is talking about a searing, as branding an owned animal or slave.
It is their "own conscience" that is "branded" by "deceitful spirits", "doctrines of demons", and "hypocrisy of liars", which own and enslave the faith of those symbolically branded.
Their faith is "seared by the intense heat", which causes them to blame God for their torment. They attribute all they are accepting in their minds and faith, to God.
The burden of false doctrine, is a load attributed to God. In reality, those branded by demonic lies, have given themselves over to slave for Satan, believe in his deceptions, follow all his demanding decrees, ....and they believe it is all from God.
The slave "Brand" mark is descibed for us, at Rev.13:16-18...
"It (the false prophet) also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name. 18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666."
The mark of the Beast, has replaced the slave mark of God (Deut.11:18; 6:6,8). Instead of following God's Laws, they follow the laws of the Beast, which are inspired of demons (1Tim.4:1).
The Brand mark of "all people", and who they are owned and enslaved to, is the Wild Beast. That slave mark is the name or number of the Beast.
We know that the Beast's name, is "blasphemous", or, a lie against God (Dan.7:25; Rev.13:5-6). Those who worship the Beast's image, believe in it's divinity and spirit-inspiration.
But Rev.13:15 shows us the source of it's inspiration...
"The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed."
It is the false prophet/second beast who "speaks like a dragon"... not God, who inspires/breathes life/attributes spirit, into the image of that Beast, as claiming the Beast's Image is inspired of God. That prophet is a liar, as symbolically described by Rev.13:11. It is blasphemous, to attribute God's spirit as the source of an Idolatrous Organization...an "abomination causing desolation" to God's Chosen... demanding that they idolize and worship, enslave themselves to, and obey, a Gentile Idol. We find ourselves in the same situation as Daniel (Dan.3:6); and we too are threatened by a fiery furnace (Rev.9:2; Rev.13:15).
"All the earth" (LINK) are deceived by Satan's false prophet, into worshipping, following, enslaving their minds to, and obeying the Idol and false teachings of, the "Wild Beast" (Rev.13:8,7,3).
As you can see from verse 7, that includes the anointed (Rev.2:20). Yes, this test will come in upon all of them, during the Great Tribulation. (Amos9:8-9,1; Luke21:35,24,22).
Regarding "the number of the Beast" as also being the brandmark of those enslaved into idolatry, and the meaning of 666, here is a link: (LINK).
 

Last Edited By: Pearl Doxsey Dec 5 15 6:42 AM. Edited 2 times.

Quote    Reply   

#7 [url]

Dec 5 15 4:32 PM

Hi Pearl,
thanks for that. Could please clarify what you mean by:
"Their faith is "seared by the intense heat", which causes them to blame God for their torment."

How can an anointeds faith be "seared by the intense heat"? Do you mean the truth exposes what sort of faith that Anointed has...if they are willing to allow new truth from Christ to refine them,and if they dont,they are branded and sealed as without faith, that could have been based on Christ's new truth?

"which causes them to blame God for their torment.". What 'torment"? The torment of lies and the burden of lies and how it effects someone who should be rejoicing with truth if they would only accept it? Or are you saying that they are tormented by their adverse judgment by the fire of truth and "blame God" for their situation because they are looking to blame someone instead of taking responsibilty for their actions? they could have accpted fire/truth from Christ,but are now looking to make excuses by "blaming God" who "should have been more clear"? Blatant refusal is the only reason for their rejecting truth. Which is why they get adverse judgement by fire/truth. Maybe im misunderstanding here. :-)

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad

#8 [url]

Dec 7 15 7:38 PM

Hi Pearl, and Everyone:)

Your words helped reveal something more to me tonight.  I have been thinking about the children of God, and as you have taught me that there is always a counterfeit fulfillment through Satan – primarily the covenants of life and death – I was lead to the thought of pride when you said, “It is the lack of humility and false sense of "peace and security" with God, that keeps them from perceiving their need for repentance (Matt.13:15) (John8:43,47).”

Pride is a hard one to crack, especially if one is “sealed” by it.  The very last scripture of Job 41 on Leviathan culminates in its grimness with these words:

"He beholds every high thing; He is king over all the children of pride.”  Job 41:34 The Darby Translation says, He beholdeth all high things; he is king over all the proud beasts.

“The rows of his shields are a pride, shut up together [as with] a close seal.” Vs 15.

It appears that the impenetrable lack of humility is the donning of pride.  The shield of God is abandoned, whereas the shield of pride is taken up – it becomes the high place, the fortress ("rows of his shields"), for those sealed into the covenant of death.  The children of God, on the other hand, choose the Father as our shield and fortress.  One Shield, one Rock -  

Ps 18:2 - "The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer;
My God, my strength, in whom I will trust;
My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold."
 

Comparing the two contradicting paths which we must carefully consider, requires leaning on our Rock for understanding.  We must trust Him, for Satan’s counterfeit path to the false “peace and security” can appear as the wise one, the bright one -  

"He leaves a shining wake behind him; One would think the deep had white hair."  Job 41:32

Our choice is Mt Zion where God and Christ reside…or to follow behind Leviathan, the ruler of the counterfeit high place of a mountainlike organization ruled by Beasts.  What prideful assumption the Beasts have in thinking they can replace our shield in God with a fortress of Walls whitewashed with boastful lies.

I hope everyone is well tonight -
Julian, Berucha, Deborah, Grapevine, Mickey, Obe, Pearl, JD, Modise, Andre', Rus, Daz, Nanaof2, Miro144 - continually, you are all in my thoughts and prayers for your ongoing faith and strength to see us through to the Kingdom.  

love in Christ,
peely  

Quote    Reply   

#9 [url]

Dec 8 15 7:34 AM

Yes Peely. I see that too.
The children of humility are like Sarah (who pre-figured "Jerusalem above" -Gal.4:24,26,28), who called Abraham her lord (1Pet.3:6).
But the "children of pride"/sons of Destruction/offspring of vipers, have as their downfall, their prideful resistance against being tamed by the word of God (James1:21; Eph.4:22-24; 1Pet.1:22) (Jer.5:5; 2:20,31; 3:1-2,13; 13:27; Eze.16:15; Deut.12:2; Isa.57:7; 1:21; Rev.17:1-2,6) and His Spirit (Gal.5:16-26).
I notice your reference to the "fortress" also. It reminds me of the god which the WT Gentiles/"man of lawlessness" were prophesied to worship.... the "god of fortresses" (Dan.11:37-38; Rev.17:7), who rules over such worldly strongholds (1John5:19; 2Cor.4:4; Matt.4:8-9; Rev.9:1) and imbues those whom he wishes, with the same authority and power (Rev.12:3; 13:1-2,4).
Also your reference to Job41:32 in speaking of Leviathan/Satan...
"He leaves a shining wake behind him; One would think the deep had white hair." 
Meaning? The "wake" is the ripple he causes in the "sea" (Isa.57:20), due to his crooked and twisted "gliding". It seems to shine with "light" (2Cor.11:14), so much so, that the "deep"/abyss of demonic deception would appear to have the respectability and wisdom of  "white hair" (Prov.16:31; 20:29; Lev.19:32; Dan.7:9; Rev.1:14).
Thank you for your comments.

JD,
I spent five hours on my reply to you on Sunday, but as you know about the problems and frustrations of this site, I lost it.
I hope to respond today, and that Spirit will again enable me to offer you the riches of God's Word.
Love to all,
Pearl
 

Last Edited By: Pearl Doxsey Dec 8 15 7:52 AM. Edited 1 time.

Quote    Reply   

#10 [url]

Dec 8 15 9:15 AM

Oh, yes, Pearl!  The scripture in Job 41:32 is rather amazing to me in how well it depicts the organization.    When you brought out Dan 7:9, it made me think how those within the organization feel God and “truth” are to be found there, “One would think the deep had white hair”.  How well we know that those behind its walls view themselves as being “in the truth” and thought to be far from any deceptive sea or abyss of Satan.   

His heart is as hard as stone,
Even as hard as the lower millstone.


When we realize we must follow in Christ's path, we allow the Father to remove that stony heart we shared with Leviathan under his beastly influence.  Ezek 11:17-21

When he raises himself up, the mighty are afraid;
Because of his crashings they are beside themselves. Job 41:24,25


Crashings (sheber) can mean- “breaking, fracture, crushing, breach, crash, ruin, shattering”
Is this not the abomination of desolation of Matt 24:15?  

“Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.  Matt 18:6

Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore.  Rev 18:21

The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. No craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore, and the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore.  Rev 18:22

This describes the false sense of "'peace and security", does it not?  The organization creates a false praise to God in music, words preached (trumpeters), as well as their iconic building intensity - all directed and influenced by the hardened hearts of the Beasts.


Thank you Pearl for your insight, it is most appreciated. I do hope you are well today.

love,
peely

Quote    Reply   

#11 [url]

Dec 8 15 10:39 AM

Yes Peely. The millstone is for grinding grain into bread. Satan's stone heart crushes the wheat... the sons of the kingdom. He kills them, but by means of our death, like Christ, we can offer life (living bread) to yet others (John12:24-25; 1Cor.15:36; Rom.6:5). Of course, the harlot joins with Satan, doing his will, killing the holy ones (Rev.17:6) by means of her Gentile wild Beast (Rev.11:7). Her stiff neck therefore (Acts7:51), deserves to have tied around it, all the weight of that heartless persecution. The very flood she summoned from the abyss, it's lies and it's messengers of lies, will come around to her (Isa.28:3,17-19; 27:27-28,34; Rev.17:16-17), and she will "drown in the heart of the sea" (Eze.28:8; 27:26-27; Rev.18:11; Isa.14:1-23) along with her Beast/man of lawlessness (Eze.32:23; Isa.14:14-16).When we see the demise of Satan's synagogue (Rev.2:9); we will finally have so many reasons to rejoice (Rev.18:20).
 

Last Edited By: Pearl Doxsey Dec 8 15 12:37 PM. Edited 1 time.

Quote    Reply   

#12 [url]

Dec 8 15 12:05 PM

Revelation 18:11“And the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise anymore"

The main reason for any credibility of  "commerce" within the organisation,because the Harlot was a genuine,but UNfaithufl Anointed,will be gone. Having anointed 'governing"  "jws" seemed to make the "merchandise" worth buying and slaving for. But now she is gone,no-one will "buy their merchandise anymore". Then all the lies and slavery will be a reason to mourn. How this will effect the rank and file jw will be something to watch. Of course the beast,led by other anointed who oraginised Her fall,will regret what they did. It will be a major flaw of the whole world power being exposed! But to see Jahs vengence upon Her and how thats carried out,will be wonderful to watch! No weeping or mourning from me! Instead rejoicing that what that stinking Harlot did to Christ's brothers,will be done to Her!

Quote    Reply   

#13 [url]

Dec 8 15 8:30 PM

 Rev 18:11“And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their cargoes any more—

 Rev 18:12 cargoes of gold and silver and precious fnstones and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet, and every kind of citron wood and every article of ivory and every article made from very costly wood and bronze and iron and marble,"

"very costly wood" is a combustable material. their combustable material,was costly,it was a mark of their slavery to the Harlot. Yet,that mark of slavery and what they slaved for,is shown as worthless on the day She is completely burnded with fire.

 Rev 18:13and cinnamon and fnspice and incense and perfume and frankincense and wine and olive oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep, and cargoes of horses and chariots and slaves and human lives."

The dual world power,led by the Harlot traded with "slaves and human lives." The merchants of "elders" encourage jws to go from H2H,looking for more slaves for the Harlot. Thats why they are "merchants" of that commodity. Looking to make slaves of people for THEIR dual world power,which the Harlot backed.

 Rev 18:14 “The fruit you long for has gone from you, and all things that were luxurious and splendid have passed away from you and men will no longer find them."

The things they THOUGHT  were  "luxurious and splendid" are not such. These spiritual things "passed away" because they were NOT true spiritual valuable things.

 Rev 18:15 “The merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand at a distance because of the fear of her torment, weeping and mourning,"

The Beast elders who gained by the Harlot..and "became rich from her" by being part of the dual world power,wont be sorry for their spiritual corruption,they will onky worry that they will recieve the same judgment. They are not sorry for thier trading in death and 'slaves". V13

 Rev 18:16 saying, ‘Woe, woe, the great city, she who was clothed in fine linen and purple and scarlet, and fnadorned with gold and precious fnstones and pearls;"

 Rev 18:17 for in one hour such great wealth has been laid waste!’ And every shipmaster and every fnpassenger and sailor, and as many as make their living by the sea, stood at a distanc"

Even when faced with Her destruction,which is a reflection of the spiritual filth She stood for,these merchants have not learnt that what She offered and what they traded,is wrong in Jahs eyes. They still call her filth "great wealth". It was NOT TRUE wealth!

 Rev 18:18 and were crying out as they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, ‘What city is like the great city?’

It still amases me that this applies to what will happen to the Harlot GB...and evenst within jws. When we all studied the revelation book,could we have seen this applied to the very organisation we were part of.

Last Edited By: Jahsdisciple Dec 8 15 9:39 PM. Edited 1 time.

Quote    Reply   

#14 [url]

Dec 9 15 1:09 PM

Thanks for these scriptures and comments, JD.  "In one hour such great wealth has been laid waste"  After all of this and we look back, it will seem like one hour. We are all in anticipation for that hour to arrive.

Pearl, you said:  " Satan's stone heart crushes the wheat... the sons of the kingdom." 

That is sure made clear by Job 41:30

“His underparts are like sharp potsherds; He spreads out like a threshing sledge on the mire".

"But now, O Lord, You are our Father,
We are the clay, and You our potter;
And all of us are the work of Your hand". 
Isa 64:8

The same word for “threshing sledge” is used in Joel 3:14
Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: H2742 for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. H2742

In Luke 22:31, “Satan has demanded permission (just as with Job) to sift you like wheat”  In such an afflicted and blinding state, it is our individual decision to either remain under Satan as crushed potsherds, crushed wheat, or act upon the call to the Marriage Feast and leave. 

Yes, Pearl, we will have many reasons to rejoice, and soon. 

 "For as the earth brings forth its bud,
As the garden causes the things that are sown in it to spring forth,
So the Lord God will cause righteous and praise to spring forth before all the nations."
 Isa 61:11 

love,
p.

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad
Add Reply

Quick Reply

bbcode help