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Oct 17 15 2:01 PM

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I would like to post a comment made at ( http://meletivivlon.com/2015/10/15/this-generation-a-modern-day-fulfillment/#close  )
by Meleti Vivlon, and my response to it. I do this because I have my doubts that my response will make it through his moderation.
He was responding to what I have written at (http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/11/generation.html)

Meleti Vivlon:
You state that a generation “does not speak of a time, it speaks of a result.” Yet, further on you show that time is involved because all these things must occur before the generation passes away. This is a contradiction which you fail to resolve. You also include elements in “all these things” (such as the wheat and weeds) which are not part of the context of Matthew 24, but fail to show Scriptural support for including them. You also state that “the Greek of “generation” is actually speaking of something which spirit generates, or creates.” Sometimes yes and often no. It has several meaning and the scriptures you site prove that, but you ignore all but the meaning that suits your interpretation. This is eisegesis and it has not validity here. Additionally, and this is the biggest hole in your arguments, you fail to show how either of the two generations you speak of pass away before all these things occur. The thing is if we accept your two millennia-spanning generations, then you have to acknowledge that they both survive until after the 1,000 years have ended, which is way outside of all the things Jesus was referring to when speaking to his disciples."

My Response:
I wish to respond to your comments...
"further on you show that time is involved because all these things must occur before the generation passes away."
Does not every occurrence require time? The passing of time alone does not result in discernment (Matt.24:34).
Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
To be more precise about what the scriptures (and I) assert, is that the generation will not pass away, until all things occur.
This means that the power of the holy ones will not disappear, until all things prophesied about them, are fulfilled. Although this sequence, naturally occurs in the context of time, we learn more about Matt.24:34 if we uncover what has been prophesied about them that will be fulfilled before their demise. If we are able to recognize that fulfillment and demise, we certainly are in a better position to recognize the  "sign" of Christ's parousia, and when it is being fulfilled.
Again... that "timing" is not given as a date, but as a situation and sequence of events. Therefore, they are recognized, not by a timepiece, but by events, or, causes and subsequent results, regardless of the date (Dan.12:8).
Jesus described the timing as a "season". 
Accordingly, it would be recognize by a sequence of events (Matt.24:32-33). I made this point, because Jesus himself advises this key to discernment is recognizing cause and effect as it unfolds. Therefore, those are the things I have emphasized when teaching this subject. I don't discern the contradiction you refer to. Time can be involved when *conditions arrive, or when prophecy is *fulfilled, without the central teaching point of Christ's words, as being about a calendar or clock. I did not say that all element of time stands still (absurd), but rather, that if we focus on the details of cause and effect, conditions and circumstances which Jesus described in Matt.24:34, we are better enabled to discern the lesson, his presence, as well as the conclusion of the age (Dan.12:6).
  The conclusion of the age is described in many parables and prophecies. Since they all are true descriptions of the same culmination, they belong together to created the whole. They all contribute to a full picture. 
The "kingdom of the heavens" was also described in many parables and prophecies by Jesus (Matt.13). Though they all seem unrelated, are they? Is each parable and prophecy regarding a different kingdom? No. Each lesson contributes to a fuller understanding of the one kingdom.
To illustrate;
How well would we recognize a person we never met, if we were only told their hair color? If their height were also provided, that would help. If eye color and weight were added, even better. What if clothing and location were added? And finally, if we were told what activity they were engaged in, and what their circumstances were, we may very well recognize them at first glance.
The two generations (righteous, and wicked) which Jesus refers to, are not missing from the rest of the Bible. 
If we believed that the only valid clue to our missing person was their eye color, we would not do well recognizing them in a crowd. We must combine all our available information if we hope to visualize fully. If we hope to "discern the hour", we too must not compartmentalize all the prophecies pertaining to it. 
Do you not recognize the "wheat" as righteous, and the "weeds" as rejected?
Do you not recognize that just as the "generation" exists until the end, the wheat and weeds are present at the end? (Matt.13:30; Matt.13:39; Matt.24:3; Matt.24:34)  
Why do you believe that the "generation" given relevant importance by Jesus, must be unrelated to their contemporary "wheat" and "weeds", which are obviously also the central figures of end-time prophecy? What scripture convinces you, that these two groups are unrelated? 
Jesus himself tells us, that the wheat are sons of the kingdom (Ps.14:5; Matt.13:43; Rom.8:17; Ps.37:29), and the weeds are sons of the wicked one (Matt.13:38; Matt.13:40; Matt.23:33; Matt.13:42; 2Pet.3:7)... the "generation", or offshoot of the devil. That "generation" will keep seeking to see the sign we discuss, but will not be enabled (Luke11:29). While speaking of the wheat and weeds, Jesus also spoke of those who fail to discern the meaning of the signs and symbols Jesus used (Matt.13:14; Matt.13:11).
Who, besides these two groups ("wheat" and "weeds"), do you believe the end-time "generation" consists of? (Please provide a scripture.) 
Jesus claimed that there are those who are graced with understanding all his prophecies and parables (Matt.13:11; Dan.12:10; Dan.12:3; Matt.13:43; Phil.2:15; Rev.1:20). Would they not then be enabled to integrate them as they relate to one another.... just as the pieces of a puzzle contribute to a clear, full, and detailed image?
Just as you refer to previously written material to back up your assertions, I also have written extensively about these things, and like you, cannot repeat everything each time I touch upon a related subject. Much has been written about the "wheat" and "weeds", and how this parable relates to the rest of the conclusion of the age, not only by me, but by others. If interested, feel free to use the search box at my Blog.
I would be interested in having the scriptures that indicate that "generation" is "often" used in the Bible, to define something other than what is generated.
You stated;
"Additionally, and this is the biggest hole in your arguments, you fail to show how either of the two generations you speak of pass away before all these things occur."
Again, that may seem to be equal to what i said, but it is not.
The generation will  N O T  pass away, UNTIL all things are DONE occurring (Matt.24:34). You are stating the opposite.
They will exist, until all prophecy about them, is fulfilled.
Yet the presence of the faithful, goes largely unrecognized (Matt.25:37-29,44; Heb.13:2; 12:22)
  If you discern the "generation" passing away (and their "power, coming to nothing" (Dan.12:7 B; Luke 21:24; Rev.13:7; 11:7; Dan.7:25; Dan.8:24) (AND you have not discerned the genuine fulfillment of what was prophesied about them), then you failed to discern the last hour, Christ's inspection, or the full accomplishment of God's requirements for the end to arrive (Ps.110:1-2).
  Lastly, you say;
"The thing is if we accept your two millennia-spanning generations, then you have to acknowledge that they both survive until after the 1,000 years have ended, which is way outside of all the things Jesus was referring to when speaking to his disciples."
I don't know what scriptures guide you to believe that the wicked and righteous do not exist after the end of the "thousand years",
but perhaps you can contemplate Rev.20:7-9, as follows;

"7 When the thousand years **are over**, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth **and surrounded the camp of God’s people**, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them." 
Also, I never said that the two generations (righteous/ wicked--wheat/weeds) have existed for the past two thousand millennia.
The scriptures I gave in the previous post, asserted that they have existed since Eden.

 

Last Edited By: Pearl Doxsey Oct 17 15 7:32 PM. Edited 3 times

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#1 [url]

Oct 17 15 2:13 PM

"Generation" is refering to those Born again...those generated by Sprirt. But before they can be Born into Gods Kingdom,time must pass in order for their birth-pangs to be completed. Just because "Birth-pangs" take time to happen,this is NOT talking about Generation being a time period. This is WT/Harlot thinking. Generation are Born again spirit Anointed who are going through "Birth-pangs" which like any other "labour"...or baby about to be Born,takes time. 

The time needed for this to happen are the Birth-pangs.
The people going through the Birth-pangs are Born Again Anointed "Generated" by Spirit.
"Generation" is the whole GROUP of Anointed who are generated by Spirit,going through Birth-pangs at this time.
All the events within the "Birth-pangs" must be completed before the next phase of the Generated Born Again Anointed can happen,their Birth into Gods kingdom.

Did he misunderstood you Pearl,because saying there are "two generatons" shows he is not understanding the issues. All Anointed are the "generation",but the Birth-pangs are dividing that ONE group into two,faithful or not. But its still one generation or group,because weather they are faithful or not,still are Spirit Anointed and generated by Spirit. "Generation" is describing Spirits effect on them in being anointed by it. Some choose to be faithful to their being generated by Spirit,some dont,but they are still the same one group.

The "wheat" and 'weeds' come from the one group of those generated by Spirit.

I will have to look up "generation passes away." in the Greek..because after the Birth-pangs are completed,those faithful become Immortal,so they cannot "pass away" into death. How do they "pass away"? Will have a look. :-) But you did say something about that,but just in case the Greek makes something else clear.

Pearl,the way this guy talks,he is not searching. He says "The thing is if we accept your two millennia-spanning generations". Where have you ever explained that? He is still effect by the harlots physical way of looking at Revelation. There is only ONE "thousand years". 
 

Last Edited By: Jahsdisciple Oct 17 15 2:43 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#2 [url]

Oct 17 15 8:50 PM

Hi JD,
The "passing away" is the sign of Jonah, which is the only part of prophecy's fulfillment that the "crooked and twisted generation" will witness, or see (Matt.16:4).
Although missing it's prophetic significance, they will see the demise of the faithful, and their being overcome and swallowed by the abyss/deep/sea, and it's "sea monster", Leviathan.
It is that loss of power that the holy ones endure... their being conquered and killed, that fulfills the sign of Jonah, and the "passing away" after all foretold, is accomplished.

Just as Rev.6:11 states, the end is waiting for the last of them to "pass away"...
"...they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been."

"6 One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?”
7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.” (Dan.12:6-7)

"It (the beast) was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation." (Rev.13:7)
"Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them." (Rev.11:7)

Yes, all anointed are Chosen, and subjected to the sifting tribulation by Satan. This divides them into two camps...
The righteous generation, and the disobedient sons.. the "crooked and twisted generation" (Phil.2:15) (Dan.12:3,10). The latter adopt as their father, the Devil (Matt.13:38), and become generated by his spirit.
"And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience." (Eph.2:1-2)
Jesus explained how this happens, when they return to and cultivate the seeds of demonic teachings in their heart (weeds),
rather than the seed of truth (wheat) [Matt.13:18-23].
Although taken into covenant with God, they commit spiritual adultery, and come to belong to another (Jer.3:1).
The riches of lies and power which they think they have gained, will be taken from them (Ps.112:10).

 "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned." (Heb.6:4-6A,8) "Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’” (Matt.13:30) "“As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age." (Matt.13:40)

If you would like more scriptures about the two generations.... those who are sealed and proven to be generated by God's spirit, and those who are later sealed and proven be generated by Satan's spirit, the original article linked above supplies them, as well as many other related subject articles (The sign of Jonah, Leviathan,etc.).

Yes, the "thousand years" is symbolic. It is the period which Christ reigns, during which the elect of Zion are tested, and those found faithful, reign (exert authority) with Christ. He speaks of the literal two thousand years since Christ lived, until now.

All the tested elect since the new covenant was established (two thousand years ago), become sealed into the faithful and righteous generation, or the wicked generation.
But they are not the only, nor the first members of such generations.
The righteous have existed since Abel (Ps.14:5; Heb.11:4) (Luke13:28; Ps.37), and those who belong to the wicked one,
go back at least as far as Cain (1John3:12; Deut.32:5; Acts2:40).  
All righteous inherit the earth, and eternal life. Those called, chosen and faithful who complete the full path of Christ, reign over it forever (Dan.7:18)...

"I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom." (Dan.7:21-22)
" 'And you, O slain, wicked one, the prince of Israel, whose day has come, in the time of the punishment of the end,' thus says the Lord GOD, 'Remove the turban and take off the crown; this will no longer be the same. Exalt that which is low (power brought to nothing) and abase that which is high." (Eze.21:25-26)
"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever." (Dan.2:44)
This is why I try to answer such comments... because men like this publicly accuse me of saying things I do not teach, just because they cannot understand what I have written (Heb.5:11).
I don't like to leave such a public record, that may give the wrong impression of what I offer. Yet as usual, my scriptural clarifications are not posted,
as turned out to be the case there.

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#3 [url]

Oct 17 15 10:50 PM

"Yes, the "thousand years" is symbolic. It is the period which Christ reigns, during which the elect of Zion are tested, and those found faithful, reign (exert authority) with Christ. He speaks of the literal two thousand years since Christ lived, until now."

Thanks for the reply. Can you please explain the above? If the "thousand years" is symbolic,then how can there be "two thousand"? Or is that what they other guy said. Maybe i read it wrong. :-)

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#4 [url]

Oct 18 15 6:35 AM

He was only referring to the literal, physical two thousand years, since Christ's birth until now. He doubts the "Thousand Years" could actually stand for a literal two thousand years. But a symbolic number can stand for any amount of actual years, because it's meaning is not literal. It's number stands for something other than a literal amount. That is true of all Revelation's numbers. Regarding 666... it is not physically tatood on the forheads of the Beast's worshippers, as if the actual number 6 is controlling them. The 12,000 in each tribe is not literal because there is a limited amount of physical thrones to sit on. The "third" that are disciplined and killed is not literal, just because God feels like targeting that amount. The heavenly city is not literally 144000 cubits wide, etc. etc. All these "measurements" are a symbolic reflection of how these identities "measure up" in God's judgment.
A "thousand" has a lot of meaning in the Bible. It is the result of 10X10X10.  It is a complete harvest of the earth, thoroughly completed by the eyes of God (Rev.5:6; Zech.4:10; 2Chron.16:9; Haggai2:7).
Physical men think that the numbers are actual, and so they are unable to believe that the "thousand years" could actually turn out to be a different amount of actual time. Because of their physical perception, they are prevented from seeing the meaning behind what these numbers, truly represent.

Last Edited By: Pearl Doxsey Oct 18 15 7:01 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#5 [url]

Oct 18 15 1:33 PM

Hi all, thankyou for posting this Pearl & also thankyou JD for your input too. Although I understand that the thousand years is symbolic I always seem to find it some-what difficult to explain it to those who believe it to be literal. It is again a case of what I mentioned in my previous topic/ post on here ("Be Encouraged") with regards to discerning with your spiritual eye & not relying on your physical one, is it not apparent with regards to the harvest & it's taking place? I believe it is very apparent if you look beyond the physical literal aspects. Jesus knew that these ones would be looking for literal physical signs rather than taking time to understand the scriptures in a spiritual sense to prophecy, John 4:48 Jesus told him, "Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will never believe."

Warm & loving regards,
​Daz

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#6 [url]

Oct 19 15 1:12 AM

 Mat 24:34 “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.”

How does this current generation “pass away”?

pass away” is a summary of a two fold,two event expression.

1/ Via the “birth-pangs” the “present,first heavens” of generated Anointed is removed because its contaminated.
2/ Once the “present,first heavens” are removed,The New Heavens remain and can “come near,approach,arrive” and be Born into Gods Kingdom.

Christ was saying “this generation” as it is during the “birth-pangs” will pass away. Why? The current Spirit generated group of Anointed,has both wheat and weeds,Wise and Fool Virgins,righteous and wicked.

Can both wheat and weeds,Wise and Fool Virgins,righteous and wicked be Born into Gods kingdom? No.

Which is why the harvest/Birth-pangs is revealed as removing the weeds,fool Virgins and wicked Anointed even though they are generated,Born again by Spirit. They proved UNfaithful to that and allowed satan to be their father. But those who are satans “generation” from Anointed,are not “Born again” to satan as they were to Jah through Christ. They are not Anointed with his spirit,they are disloyal their Anointing via Holy Spirit.

pass away” G3928 come near,approach(arrive).
Mat 24:34 “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.”
“Truly I say to you, this generation will not come near,approach(arrive) until all these things take place.”

Those who end up being within Gods Kingdom are conquers. They have conquered even their fellow Anointed who do not come near,approach(arrive)...and Born into Gods Kingdom.

Putting it another way,The “generation” in its present contaminated state,cannot come near,approach(arrive) into Gods Kingdom until all events within the Birth-pangs take place

The result of the contaminated “generation” “passing away” is that those who remain because of being faithful,can “come near,approach,arrive” as members of Gods kingdom,who proved faithful to their “spirit generating”,when the others did not. This not being made “inactive” through a death of some kind,which the “sign of Jonah” depicts as far as I understand it.

Passing away” is describing the net result upon Anointed as whole,because ALL Anointed go though “Birth-pangs”..AND what happens to those anointed who remain after the “present/first heavens” of which they WERE part of,is “burned away”. Matt 24;35. Rev 21:1.

Yes,the sign of Jonah does happen,but Matt 24 is not talking about that event upon Anointed...but who moves forward (come near,approach,arrive) into Gods kingdom as a result of the Birth-pangs. Its describing a specific result of the birth-pangs upon the “Present heavens” 2 Peter 3:7 / the “first heaven” Rev 21:1.

The result of the “birth-pangs” upon the “present/first heaven”(2 Peter 3:7,Rev 21:1),is that it “passes away”,which then allows the “New heavens” members to be manifested...and they move forward (come near, approach, arrive) into Gods kingdom.

2 Peter 3:7 “But by His word the present heavens (Rev 21:1)and earth are being reserved for fire” for the great tribulating Birth-pangs. Both Righteous Anointed and UN-Righteous Anointed are called the “present heavens”,because it contains both...just as the generation of Matt 24:34.

 ALL the Anointed “generation” weather righteous or not,go through the “Birth-pangs” mentioned in Matt 24:34. Matt 24 is not making this distinction,which of course does exist. Its specific purpose is to describe what happens to anointed who faithfully complete the Birth-pangs...and the “passing away” of the “present/first heavens” which includes UNfaithful “generation” of Anointed...so that those who are left are Born into Gods Kingdom,which is what happens after the Birth-pangs are over.

The Fire/truth will remove the “combustible” part of the “present heavens” who followed lies/satan...and leave only Anointed “where righteousness will dwell”.

At the moment,UNrighteousness dwells within the “present heavens”...and cannot be part of the “new Heavens” which DOES NOT include UNrighteous Anointed. These are removed during the Birth-pangs. Who are left are fit for Birth into Gods Kingdom...and they “come near,approach(arrive)” into it, leaving behind the “present/first heavens” because they are the “New Heavens” where only “righteousness dwells”.

The current generation of spirit Anointed as a group MUST pass away. Why? Because at the moment,there is a dividing of it into faithful and not.

There will be a “new heavens” when the Birth-pangs are completed,because the current “present Heavens of Anointed” are contaminated by those who have proven evil,like the GB. They will not be part of Gods Kingdom as the birth-pangs are proving.

The “New Heavens” are conquers of the Birth-pangs and “come near,approach,arrive” into Gods Kingdom.

Which is why Christ said,this current group of Spirit generated,would NOT “come near,approach(arrive)” until “all these things” within the “Birth-pangs” happened so as to remove the Unfaithful Anointed...and then,those left would “come near,approach(arrive)” into Gods Kingdom. Thats the purpose of the Birth-pangs...to remove the UNfaithful “heavens” and leave remaining the “New Heavens” of only faithful Anointed.

The current heavens/generation “pass away with fire” because there are those within it, who will consumed by fire/truth coming through Christ...and are being exposed as Liars,like the GB. Their hope of heaven will be removed by the judgement of fire/truth being revealed from Christ. These are shown by the “Birth-pangs” not to be worthy of the “New Heavens”...even though they are part of the Born Again “generation”.

So the “generation” which includes both righteous and wicked, does “pass away” because its being tested and many prove unworthy of their invitation which is by “generation” by Spirit.

So that “generation” of Anointed which includes both faithful and not,comes to an end as the “present/first heavens”...because of the Great Tribulating Birth-pangs.

Because the “Birth-pangs” are completed with all the events being fulfilled,it means the purpose of the Birth-pangs was accomplished upon the generation as a group “the present/first heavens”. What happens on the other side of the “Birth-pangs” is the Birth of Gods kingdom consisting of Truth/Fire purified “New Heavens” members. Even those who become part of the “New Heavens” must “leave” behind things that contaminate them. Lies personality traits etc.

Does an unborn child stay that way forever? No,they must progress though each stage of its life. Once the Birth-pangs are completed,the “present heavens” contaminated by unfaithful Anointed no longer exist.

It has “passed away” via the Birth-pangs...revealing those who can “come near,approach,arrive” into Gods Kingdom Just as the generation enduring the Birth-pangs,consists of many UNfaithful anointed/Heavens.

pass away” is a two fold,two event expression.
1/ Via the “birth-pangs” the “present,first heavens” are removed because its contaminated.
2/ Once the “present,first heavens” are removed,The New Heavens remain and can “come near,approach,arrive” and be Born into Gods Kingdom

BUT since that part of the “present heavens” has now been destroyed...it means those remaining faithful can “come near,approach,arrive” into Gods Kingdom. This is not the sign of Jonah as I understand it.

This verse is talking about the transition from the “present/first heavens” to the “new heavens”...made possible from the effects/tribulation of the Birth-pangs.

The result of the Birth-pangs “all these things” being fulfilled ,is that those remaining as proven faithful,can “come near,approach,arrive” into Gods Kingdom...leaving behind the “present heavens”.
Fire/truth had its effect upon the “present Heavens” of the “generation” Born Again as a group,and WHO are left are the “New heavens” Members of purified Anointed who proved faithful during the “Birth-pangs”.

The birth-pangs indicate WHO of the “generation” Anointed can be part the child/Kingdom and are “developed enough” to be Born into it. Those “burned” up via fire/truth within the “present heavens”,showed they chose to not develop enough spiritually via truth/Fire,so they could be born into Gods Kingdom,even though they were generated by Spirit. They “pass away” along with the “present/first heavens”...they dont progress “come near,approach,arrive” to the next stage that other faithful “generation” Anointed do.

Mat 5:18“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass G3928 away, G3928 not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass G3928 from the Law until all is accomplished.

The generation will not pass away...move on to the next stage of the Birth...until all the things happen within that generation of Anointed “present/first heavens”,that then selects those who CAN go the next stage:Being Born into Gods Kingdom....which is “come near,approach,arrive” into Gods Kingdom.

Its then these verses have application:Isaiah 11:9They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain,For the earth will be full of the knowledge of Yhwh,As the waters cover the sea”.
At the moment amongst those of the “present heavens”,there are lies and deception WHICH causes spiritual harm and ruin. Its not “full” of 100% accurate truth. Christ's angels are showing this by truth that will “fill” only those left remaining who have proved loyal to it. Which is why there will be “not hurt or destroy” by lies and false knowledge accepted and preached by UNfaithful ones within the “generation” of the Present/first Heavens

Isaiah 65:25“The wolf and the lamb will graze together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox; and dust will be the serpent’s food. They will do no evil or harm in all My holy mountain,” says Yhwh.
At the moment with corruption still within the “present Heavens” of The Invited Generation,that is not sealed as faithful or not...there is harm and ruin spiritually. Esp by the GB who are still genuine Anointed and part of the “generation” by HS,but have proved UNfaithful to that generation of Spirit.

Once the Birth-pangs are completed,their spiritually harming influence has been removed from “heaven”. What is left is re-“New”-ed Heavens,purified of any ability to corrupt and harm spiritually...and THUS ABLE to be permitted to be sealed and Born into Gods kingdom.

Those among the “generation” who have allowed themselves to be purified and chose to be loyal to Jah and Christ,are like a developing baby,now ready for Birth. Those of the “present heavens” who didnt choose to be faithful are consumed by the adverse judgement of “truth/fire” and have shown they are not worthy to be Born into Gods Kingdom. They are part of the generation that DOES “pass away” AND NOT “come near,approach,arrive” to the next stage of the “new heavens”.

pass away” is a two fold,two event expression,which is the result of The Birth-pangs. It shows which “generated” Anointed do pass away...and which Anointed “come near,approach,arrive”..are Born into Gods Kingdom.

The sign of Jonah will happen on Anointed,but this verse is telling birth-pang Victors, that they proved successful and now have proved worthy of being part of the “New Heavens”. They will now be Born into Gods everlasting Kingdom. Some of their fellow Anointed like the GB have lost their hope. The victors themselves had to endure fire of refinement which was painful,but their love of truth and who it came through,enabled them to conquer the tribulating Birth-pangs...and be given the privilege of the next stage of their spiritual development,Gods Kingdom.

Last Edited By: Jahsdisciple Oct 19 15 1:46 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#7 [url]

Oct 19 15 5:02 AM

 Hi Everyone,


“This is why I try to answer such comments... because men like this publicly accuse me of saying things I do not teach, just because they cannot understand what I have written (Heb.5:11).”

I see on the connected forum to his site that he has literally “challenged you to a  dual”, Pearl.  Oh, Pearl this is such a struggle – I feel very responsible for it, and yet I am glad also since this person with his views are swaying innocent ones coming out of the organization; again with truth yet holding onto false teachings also.  They are all searching, but it seems the search stops when the mind decides something sounds good enough to keep, while not allowing for further understanding through Holy Spirit.  They are all in my prayers.

The odd thing is that a long while back I had spoken of the symbolic meaning of the number “1,000” in response on the forum connected to the blog and he admitted that it made him consider it. In the end, though, he seems to allow debate up to a point, then draws the line boldly and vigorously.

JD, are these your words or Pearl’s?  I’m only asking because Isa 65 has been on my mind quite a bit.

“Isaiah 65:25“The wolf and the lamb will graze together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox; and dust will be the serpent’s food. They will do no evil or harm in all My holy mountain,” says Yhwh.
At the moment with corruption still within the “present Heavens” of The Invited Generation,that is not sealed as faithful or not...there is harm and ruin spiritually. Esp by the GB who are still genuine Anointed and part of the “generation” by HS, but have proved UNfaithful to that generation of Spirit.”

I hope all is well with you, JD.

love,
peely

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#8 [url]

Oct 19 15 8:01 AM

Dear Peely and JD,
I have been challenged to a few of such duals. The problem with them is, that these cowards always refuse to allow me to post or respond. I am blocked... a fact which they do not disclose to the public during their bragging taunts. In this way, they lie to the public... as they make it appear that I have withdrawn ("slithered away") from the debate due to fear, or by being conquered by their superior reasoning. I can only hope that God reaches the hearts of those who seek wisdom from such lying cowards, and helps them not be deceived by their tactics.
JD, there is more to the two fold passing away.
It must be remembered, that the spiritual birth into the kingdom, is by means of a death for truth (sign of Jonah). They are inseparable events.
The victory (and the "arriving"/"drawing near"), requires the death (Mark8:35; Rev.6:11).
Such are the ones who are "taken" (to arrive)... the others abandoned (Luke17:36-37). Such ones are the "eagles",
who draw near (arrive) to those already "slain" (Matt.24:28) (Rev.12:6; 11:3), where the marriage feast is found.
The "taken" are drawing near to Christ (go out to meet the bridegroom (Matt.25:6; Heb.13:13), and are taken into the wedding feast. They there receive the rewards Christ declared... the tree of life, the morning star, and the hidden manna. They share in his father's gift of a feast (Matt.22:2), just as when Jesus himself, drew near to God through his death, to receive the scroll of God's knowledge (Dan.7:13; Rev.5:2; 5:7) (Rev.5:6).
Jesus then shares that scroll with those who are taken (John15:15)... those who draw near to him (those who "open the door to him", and "eat with him" - Rev.3:20),
and those who must have also been, victoriously killed for truth (Rev.2:7; 2:17; 2:28) as Christ was (Col.2:15).

l hope these scriptures, help you to see the connection to the sign of Jonah. Although we may not naturally associate "demise"/"passing away" with "drawing near"/"arriving";
Once we understand the connection between them, we then do make that association within our understanding.
 

Last Edited By: Pearl Doxsey Oct 19 15 8:31 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#9 [url]

Oct 19 15 4:56 PM

Hello JD,
It seems your last two comments are causing confusion with me and others (posts 9 and 10).
I hope you can be patient, untill I have time to review and understand what you are saying.
I have temporarily hidden them, until I can do that. I just want to be sure that it is all okay, before it is left for all who visit here, to read.
From what I read and seem to grasp, your assertions are not complete, and although not outright incorrect, give a different impression of what the full truth is about these matters, and how they compliment and fit with one another.
Please be patient about my time to review, and in my fear that I stand before Christ for what is published here for all to read.
Love,
Pearl

Last Edited By: Pearl Doxsey Oct 19 15 5:23 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#10 [url]

Oct 19 15 5:37 PM

Hi Pearl,

Are you saying that since Meleti posted a rebuttal on discussthetruth that they are not letting you post there in answer to his dissection of your words?  If this is so, I am totally appalled.   I am having a hard time reading what he has written without getting upset and I am chomping at the bit to respond, but don't want to make a mess of it also.  You know impetuous me :)

I hope you and Obadiah are staying warm tonight.  I read a cold front is hitting the east, a sign fall is truly here.  How many more seasons, especially winter, are to come?  
Sending my love to all, at least it should warm the heart.

love,
peely

 

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#11 [url]

Oct 19 15 6:56 PM

Okay JD,
The first thing that may help, is how you describe number 2 as half of the two fold passing away.
"2/ Once the “present,first heavens” are removed,The New Heavens remain and can “come near,approach,arrive” and be Born into Gods Kingdom."

This sequence, which seems like first the corrupt heavens are removed, and then the faithful can arrive, is not the reality.
The old heavens can "pass away" as regards God's approval, and their peace with Him, along with their life prospects. They also pass away, as having power over those to die at their hand in faithfulness. The unfaithful heavens no longer rule over the faithful. That can happen on an individual basis. (See Rev.21:1).
Again... this is not about time. It is about how the Kingdom of God comes about within the heart of each Victor.
Both generations remain, until all is fulfilled. While the corrupt heavens exist with power, the faithful can still repent and be blessed. That includes being sealed/born again, into God's Kingdom. Both the wheat and weeds are harvested at the same time, which harvest has been ongoing since the time of Christ.
There will of course, be an end to the heavens that are now. But the faithful need not wait until then, to be born, or to belong to the new heavens of righteousness.
"22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect" (Heb.12).

"The time promised by God has come at last!" John the Baptist announced. "The Kingdom of God is near! Repent of your sins and believe the Good News!" (Mark1:15)
"From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force." (Matt.11:12)
"From that time on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near." (Matt.4:17)
"You won't be able to say, 'Here it is!' or 'It's over there!' For the Kingdom of God is already among you/within you/in your midst." (Luke17:21)

"The glory of Lebanon will come to you, the juniper, the fir and the cypress together, to adorn my sanctuary; and I will glorify the place for my feet." (Isa.60:13)
"This is what the LORD says: "Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where is the house you will build for me? Where will my resting place be?" (Isa.66:1)
"You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God rests in you." (Rom.8:9) 
"If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you." (1Pet.4:14)
"Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?" (1Cor.3:16)

 God reigns from his heavenly throne as His feet rest on his earthy sanctuary, which is within each heart of His faithful priests.
He is Lord and God, within their hearts. From there His spirit issues forth, and gives life to all who accept it, as the water of life flows up from their hearts, and through the lips of His priests... their sacrifices of praise, as they teach the words of life and truth.

"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified." (John7:38-39)
"For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of." (Luke6:45)
"Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise--the fruit of lips that openly profess his name." (Heb.13:15)
“For the lips of a priest should keep knowledge,
And people should seek the law from his mouth;
For he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts." (Mal.2:7)
 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world." (John17:18)
"Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone." (Col.4:6)
"Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth" (2Tim.2:25)

We see this more clearly, when we see the holy city (where God's throne is, and also Christ's)...
"But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. (Rev.2:28) 24 And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it." (Rev.21:22-24)
 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them." (John17:21-23,26)
"And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month (12 months). The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.
6 Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place. 7 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.” (Rev.22:1-7)

I hope you can see, that each called chosen and faithful priest, contains within their own heart, the Kingdom, as well as the Holy City. All faithful hearts are made into one, along with God and Christ. That throne of God, is in the faithful heart, reigning. God and Christ are the light of their heart, which provides living water from their throne, through spirit. They then produce the fruit of lips, as they serve God, right here at God's sanctuary, His footstool, His inhabited earth.
The collective Holy City, made up of all it's living stones (1Pet.2:5,9-10), is a spiritual one that houses God's spirit. It resides in each heart, and each heart is a part of it.
This is spiritual, so I hope you understand. I guess I could use the illustration of a family. It is in the heart of each member, but each member is a part of it.
These things will culminate and finally be completed.
This does not mean that God's kingdom, or the Holy City, will become physical, nor will it occupy a place as we humans think of a place.
In the spirit realm it can be seen, but in physical reality, it is within living hearts. All anointed faithful throughout Christ's kingdom, can enter into God's rest...
the rest of His spirit within their hearts. They need not wait for the corrupt heavens to dissappear, though, some day, they will.
Soon we will see the Harlot, pass away.

"He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God." (Rev.3:12)
When we have the name "New Jerusalem" written upon us, we are representatives/a manifestation, of that City. 
That City could be approached, even in the first century...
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect" (Heb.12:22-23)
These do not have a glory that is seen with physical eyes. They share in the glory of Christ, having God's grace, and truth.
"I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one" (John17:22)
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth." (John1:14)

We live during the time when God's Temple/City/Kingdom administration, is completed.
All wicked will soon be removed, and God's Kingdom and it's representatives, will be clearly manifested to all.

 I will return in the morning to see if there is more I can do. Please leave a comment if anyone wishes, and I will reply, then.
Good night to all,
Pearl
 

Last Edited By: Pearl Doxsey Oct 19 15 7:34 PM. Edited 3 times.

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#12 [url]

Oct 19 15 9:04 PM

Hello Peely,
I was referring to other forums where the moderator or owner condended with my expressions. I have not yet tried to post there... no time yet.
I will take a look tomorrow, and see if I can sign in, and see what he has to say. I know that his past arguements revealed that he simply did not read the scriptures I initially posted. His rebuttals drift off, using each thing I most recently say. In this way, the things I already said (and the scriptures) are left behind, and there is no progress made with him. He goes in circles and seems unable to construct the truth for all his objections to each step. He does not take the Bible for what it says long enough, to see how it all fits together. You cannot give the whole in one sentence. He refutes what is at hand, claiming that there is no basis, because he does not yet see the whole. Yet the basis for the present assertions was previously given, which he presently ignores. He is not trying to understand, but rather, trying to discount. Paul said of such ones, ""We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand." (Heb.5:11)
There is so much to explain and make clear, but it is not possible to explain the deep things (that are not obvious and require discernment), when someone is not trying to understand. Most today will keep on learning, researching, and airing their own opinions. It will not lead them to the truth, because they refuse to accept it's source. The source is spirit; not human wisdom, research, or discussion. Life is found it the words of Christ and the apostles. Meleti pursues and relies upon words, expressions, and ideas that Christ and the apostles found unnecessary to use when explaining the knowledge of life, which words explain human reasoning, and uncover the road to confusion and death. 
I'm sorry for the loss. It is one I have had to deal with for years, and it's very depressing.
Paul said;
"2 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. 2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. 4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.9 But as it is written:“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,Nor have entered into the heart of manThe things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ." (1Cor.2)

The mind of Christ is not sourced in research, human deduction, or discussion. Christ sends the truth by means of his servants (John17:18; 13:20).
They are either accepted or rejected.
 

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#14 [url]

Oct 20 15 9:09 AM

In response to JD's perspectives...

The abyss (Satan's belly) is where the testing/labor pains, take place.
One either comes out of it by God's rescue, or one is abandoned there for refusing to repent and beg God for salvation, rather than looking to the Beasts for salvation.
Coming out of the power of the abyss, is the birth from death.

Please consider that the sign of Jonah, is much more than just passing away.
Jesus said, "just as Jonah was in the belly of the sea creature for three days, so the son of man will be in the belly of the earth".
Jonah was in the belly of the monster for a reason. That reason is also part of the sign of Jonah. 
He was being disciplined and refined during those three days, because he refused to do God's assignment. 
It is the same with the called ones.
While in the belly of the abyss/Leviathan (under it's power Rev.9), they are in torment, unaware that while worshiping the Beast, they are not doing God's will, nor fulfilling the reason they were called. It is during that time, that they are being disciplined... suffering the labor pains which bring them to birth.

The passing away is only the final result of that long process, which total time is "7 times".
The harlot does pass away. "Pass away" is not only the same as entering the kingdom of God. 
Both generations pass away.
The wicked heavens passing away, is confirmed at 2Pet.3:7,10...
"But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."
"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up."

I worry that you may not be reading all the scriptures in my posts. I already cited and linked these. It is the scriptures I cite that are at the center of what I am saying in the post. They clarify and establish what I am saying, which is missed if the scriptures are not read.
Both "generations" "pass away".
The righteous generation passes away at the hands of the murderers, and are sealed into the kingdom through the sacrifice of their life for truth.
The wicked generation passes away, at the hand of the Destroyer, because they were sealed into the covenant they made with him... the covenant of Death (babylon the great), through their murders of their brothers. They seek the benefit provided by demonic lies that empower them. They kill their brothers, because they expose their lies and threaten their power.
The righteous arrive to life. All their power is lost in this life, that they might have all power in the life to come.
The wicked arrive to death. All their power will be taken away, because they chose to have their reward in full, now.

The sign of Jonah also occurs among the wicked. They also descend into the realm of death.
The difference with them, is that they never rise from it again

Isa.14:9-23
“Hell from beneath is excited about you,
To meet you at your coming;
It stirs up the dead for you,
All the chief ones of the earth;
It has raised up from their thrones
All the kings of the nations.
10 They all shall speak and say to you:
‘Have you also become as weak as we?
Have you become like us?
11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol,
And the sound of your stringed instruments;
The maggot is spread under you,
And worms cover you.’
The Fall of Lucifer
12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Daystar, son of the morning! (Rev.8:10-11; 9:1)
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.
16 “Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,
17 Who made the world as a wilderness
And destroyed its cities,
Who did not open the house of his prisoners?’
18 “All the kings of the nations,
All of them, sleep in glory,
Everyone in his own house;
19 But you are cast out of your grave
Like an abominable branch,
Like the garment of those who are slain,
Thrust through with a sword,
Who go down to the stones of the pit,
Like a corpse trodden underfoot.
20 You will not be joined with them in burial,
Because you have destroyed your land
And slain your people.
The brood of evildoers shall never be named.
21 Prepare slaughter for his children
Because of the iniquity of their fathers,
Lest they rise up and possess the land,
And fill the face of the world with cities.”
Babylon Destroyed
22 “For I will rise up against them,” says the Lord of hosts,
“And cut off from Babylon the name and remnant,
And offspring and posterity,” says the Lord.
23 “I will also make it a possession for the porcupine,
And marshes of muddy water;
I will sweep it with the broom of destruction,” says the Lord of hosts."

Ps.9:13-18;
13 Have mercy on me, O Lord!
Consider my trouble from those who hate me,
You who lift me up from the gates of death,
14 That I may tell of all Your praise
In the gates of the daughter of Zion.
I will rejoice in Your salvation.
15 The nations have sunk down in the pit which they made;
In the net which they hid, their own foot is caught.
16 The Lord is known by the judgment He executes;
The wicked is snared in the work of his own hands.
17 The wicked shall be turned into the pit,
And all the nations that forget God.
18 For the needy shall not always be forgotten;
The expectation of the poor shall not perish forever.
 
The unfaithful are not "taken"... saved from the abyss.
They are abandoned to the realm of the dead/abyss.

Not so, the righteous...

Ps.9:13
LORD, see how my enemies persecute me! Have mercy and lift me up from the gates of death,

Psalm 16:10
because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, nor will you let your faithful one see decay.

Psalm 30:3
You, LORD, brought me up from the realm of the dead; you spared me from the pit.

Psalm 56:13
For you have delivered me from death and my feet from stumbling, that I may walk before God in the light of life.

Psalm 71:20
Though you have made me see troubles, many and bitter, you will restore my life again; from the depths of the earth you will again bring me up.

Psalm 88:6
You have put me in the lowest pit, in the darkest depths. (for discipline!)

Psalm 107:14
He brought them out of darkness, the utter darkness, and broke away their chains. 
(When they repent and turn to God as their salvation)

Psalm 116:8
For you, LORD, have delivered me from death, my eyes from tears, my feet from stumbling,

Psalm 118:18
The LORD has chastened me severely, but he has not given me over to death.

Isaiah 38:17
Surely it was for my benefit that I suffered such anguish. In your love you kept me from the pit of destruction; you have put all my sins behind your back.

For great is your love toward me; you have delivered me from the depths, from the realm of the dead.
Ps.86:13

Had Jonah not turned to God in prayer, repented, and looked to God for salvation from the belly of death,
He too, would have remained there (Jonah2:2).
Those who overome the final Satanic deceptions and it's agents [by repentance from idolatry and inactivity (Rev.3:2; 2:20; 17:2)],
are saved out of the "hour of test ", which is the same as being in the belly of Leviathan/the sign of Jonah. [These are "swallowed up" by Satan's power (1Pet.5:8) (2Cor.11:3; Rev.12:9; 13:4, 7; Col.2:8; Rev.13:10)].
"Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from (failing) the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole land,
to test those who dwell on the earth." (Rev.3:10) (Rev.2:19)

Last Edited By: Pearl Doxsey Oct 20 15 9:45 AM. Edited 2 times.

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#15 [url]

Oct 21 15 7:02 AM

Hello Pearl, I have wanted to know more about the sign of Jonah, and I thank you immensely for the detail on this. 

“Please consider that the sign of Jonah, is much more than just passing away.
Jesus said, "just as Jonah was in the belly of the sea creature for three days, so the son of man will be in the belly of the earth".
Jonah was in the belly of the monster for a reason. That reason is also part of the sign of Jonah. 
He was being disciplined and refined during those three days, because he refused to do God's assignment. 
It is the same with the called ones.
While in the belly of the abyss/Leviathan (under it's power Rev.9), they are in torment, unaware that while worshiping the Beast, they are not doing God's will, nor fulfilling the reason they were called. It is during that time, that they are being disciplined... suffering the labor pains which bring them to birth.” 

I was thinking about your reference to “torment” while in the organization.  How many ways that can be addressed as a fog laid over me convincing myself I was doing God’s will, yet how hard it was to even be in the door to door work – it never felt right after the initial exuberance of learning a little truth wore off.  It is the torment of slavery, trying to please who in the long run, but the organizational machine.   This was the only true acceptance of any pleasure, if that really is a satisfactory pleasure. It brought acceptance of friends, but it never lifted the fog. There was always an underlayment of anguish, no wonder so many in the organization are depressed. The labor pains were there even if their significance was undetected until released from bondage upon repentance.  Acts 8:22,23

I have also thought much about what Paul said in 1 Cor 2.  Many on the particular forum we speak of are so influential in their speech, very polished, and seem to pat each other on the back for their findings.  This is arrogance for what one can accomplish; I must recognize that.  I feel so incredibly sorry for those who eat it up without another thought – leaning on man’s wisdom instead of direction through holy spirit.  I was there once, though.

I hope you are feeling okay today.  I’ll be happy with okay as I know “excellent” won’t arrive until later. 

love to Obadiah and all of you,
peely

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#16 [url]

Oct 21 15 1:16 PM

Another good point which I forgot to mention again, is that Jesus was conscious while in the "earth"/abyss, after his physical death.
That is a very important point while examining the "sign of Jonah".

"Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.” But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; for just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster (Ps.74:13-14; Isa.27:1) (LINK), so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." (Matt.12:38-40) 

" 'Who will descend into the abyss?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." (Rom.10:7)
(Ps.139 elludes to it being as the womb, before birth) (Isa.66:8-9; Hosea13:13; Rev.18:4)

"For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to the abyss, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment" (2Pet.2:5)

"For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison" (2Pet.3:18-19)

Yes, Jesus was made alive in the spirit, even in fleshly death. While held in the abyss... the realm of the dead, he preached to the newly arrived spirits (they were still free before Christ's death) that were now conquered by the faithfhfulness and authority of Christ (Matt.8:29; Mark3:26-27; Rev.20:1-3; Luke10:17-18; Rev.12:9).
The faithful follow his footsteps.
While we are captives of the abyss, the time comes when we must preach to those who rule there.
If we do imitate Christ in this, of course, we share in his death. But like Christ, God wil bring us forth from that womb of darkness,
into everlasting life (James1:12; Rev.3:11).

"But God released him from the horrors of death and raised him back to life, for death could not keep him in its grip." (Acts2:24)
"I want to know Christ--yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead." (Phil.3:10-11)
"For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his." (Rom.6:5)
"Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings
in order that we may also share in his glory. As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."" (Rom.8:17,36)

When the lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered because of the word of God and the testimony they had given.
10 They cried out in a loud voice,
“Holy and true Sovereign,
    how long will it be before you judge
and take revenge on those living on the earth
    who shed our blood?”
11 Each of them was given a white robe. They were told to rest a little longer until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers was completed, who would be killed as they themselves had been." (Rev.6:9-11)
"This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus." (Rev.14:12)

We are now in the period of time where it is necessary for us to manifest patience. When the rest of our brothers and sisters perceive the need to join Christ in death for truth, and are faithful in that; we will see the promises.
 

Last Edited By: Pearl Doxsey Oct 22 15 10:30 AM. Edited 2 times.

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#18 [url]

Oct 23 15 9:07 AM

Thanks :)
Pearl...what you  wrote here including the scripture you gave is so true:
Pearl:   Paul said of such ones, ""We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand." (Heb.5:11)
There is so much to explain and make clear, but it is not possible to explain the deep things (that are not obvious and require discernment), when someone is not trying to understand. Most today will keep on learning, researching, and airing their own opinions.



Peely wrote:
I have also thought much about what Paul said in 1 Cor 2.  Many on the particular forum we speak of are so influential in their speech, very polished, and seem to pat each other on the back for their findings.  This is arrogance for what one can accomplish; I must recognize that.  I feel so incredibly sorry for those who eat it up without another thought – leaning on man’s wisdom instead of direction through holy spirit.  I was there once, though.


Peely...what you wrote is so true also.  I think we were all there at some point in our growth.  It is when we grow up enough to see the truth and take a stand for it...that's when we meet with strong opposition from those still in darkness....we no longer go along with the confusion and since we are no longer willing to "tickle their ears" or pat them on the back,  we become targets of their displeasure.  At some point we all meet up with resistance on the forums when we try to show people the correct directions to finding the truth....it is not by means of our own or any man's wisdom and research..but it is by means of holy spirit and the grace of God allowing us to see the truth.  Satan has blinded the minds of those without enough faith...yes searching for truth is not easy...we must keep seeking, not stop, and we must keep asking God in prayer...only by realizing that it is not due to our own power that any of us have our eyes and minds opened up will we be "given" the blessings of understanding.  And yes it pains us to see that so many still believe the lies (or just accept not searching or thinking about the truth enough anymore)....it can become very exhausting to try and keep up with all the demands of the "organizational machine"...and so many just put themselves on "auto-pilot"...not realizing that they are heading into a storm.

Let us keep praying...because, aside from our central perspective on our past JW association, our loss of families and friends, our growing knowledge of God's word and the eventual end of this age...(because there is going to be an end to all of this)...yes let us keep praying...because there is so much evil in this world due to Satan, his demons, and those that are still in his power and so many are suffering due to this evil....Let us keep praying...because only God can end it.  

This generation will by no means pass away until all things occur....I can hardly wait for the end of this age...because it will mean an end to all the misery and suffering of every living thing on earth, not just those still decieved by the lies of the...
Wild Beast Organization of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and the Governing Body Harlot riding it.  

God puts it into the hearts of the "ten kings" to give their authority to the "Wild Beast"...and they both will hate the Harlot...(expose her sins...make her naked)....devestate her with fire (God's word)....I can hardly wait for this turning point to happen...may it come soon....they want reform and so they will both work together to get reform...the only thing that they will see standing in their way of reform is the Governing Body Harlot.

 When they see that the GB is not truly receptive to "reform"...and that the GB may actually start targeting (disfellowshipping) the "reformists" for "causing divisions"...what will the organization and the reformists do?

Weymouth New Testament  Revelation 17: 16-17
And the ten horns that you have seen--and the Wild Beast--these will hate the Harlot, and they will cause her to be laid waste and will strip her bare. They will eat her flesh, and burn her up with fire.  For God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose, and to carry out a common purpose and to give their kingdom to the Wild Beast until God's words have come to pass.
 
 Agape Obadiah



 

Last Edited By: Obadiah Oct 23 15 9:59 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#19 [url]

Nov 3 15 11:24 AM

Good choice of words Obadiah -  “And yes it pains us to see that so many still believe the lies (or just accept not searching or thinking about the truth enough anymore)....it can become very exhausting to try and keep up with all the demands of the "organizational machine"...and so many just put themselves on "auto-pilot"...not realizing that they are heading into a storm."

It is the blind leading the blind, with a pit awaiting their next step.  What I find is for many coming out of the organization, new lies are established in their minds; or new lies are taught and served up to those who stop searching for further truth once they are out.  This is what I truly hate to see; they come so far, only to fall into or close to another pit. 

I was reading Matt 7:14 trying to get a better sense of it:

ESV - For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.ISV - How narrow is the gate and how constricted is the road that leads to life, and there aren’t many people who find it!”

WEB - How narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life! Few are those who find it.

YLT - how strait [is] the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!

If we deviate one little bit from the straight and narrow path of Christ, by listening to further concocted opinions which are taken as truth, the pit awaits. 

AMPC - But the gate is narrow (contracted by pressure) and the way is straitened and compressed that leads away to life, and few are those who find it

Strongs defines “thlibo” as  trouble , afflict , narrow ,throngsuffer tribulation;
Suffer tribulation as in 1 Thess 3:4, “afflicted” as in Heb 11:37; “troubled” as in 2 Cor 7:5, "throng" as in Mar 3:9


It seems we can restrict and constrict our own availability to Holy Spirit by listening to further opinions, as if a throng of lies press in against us.  Christ’s path is “straight”, Matt 3:3; it is considered a “worn path” by definition even rutted, so it’s not an unseen trail but the foot must stay steady in the ruts. Going along it one expects pressure through Satan’s sifting; even an uncomfortable, sometimes painful feeling with each step as the path narrows along the side of our foot. 

That word “sift” of Luke 22:31, the “inward agitation to try one’s faith to the verge of overthrow” is Satan’s useful tool throwing us off course of the straight path.  As hard as it is, we are determined to keep our feet in the worn path of Christ.  And along the way are those who have diverted off onto their own paths.


Oh my, the Donner Party comes to mind.  As they created their own trail to traverse the Sierra Mountain Range through the direction of another, then later with some splitting off, each one to his own way, they were faced with an oncoming winter of hardships, little food and death.  Matt 24:20; Job 38:22,23; 37:10; Rev 16:21; Amos 8:11  They chose a cutoff from the worn path and suffered greatly.

We are hard-pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;  persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed—  always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.  2 Cor 4:8-10

We are not “crushed” or constricted so far that all hope of following Christ fully is lost.

“Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day. 17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, 18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal”  2 Cor 4:16-18

Guess I got a little carried away today.  I hope everyone is well, here we have seven inches of new unexpected snow.  It was predicted we would receive a half inch! 

Stay warm everyone.

love and prayers to all,
peely

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#20 [url]

Nov 27 15 8:02 AM

Thanks Peely....for the insight you were given. ( Sometimes the spirit can carry us away for good purposes )
...I like how you showed the Greek meanings of many of the words used here.
 The connection to 2 Corinthians 4:8-10 is very good when we think of how narrow the path to life is. It is a good reminder from the Apostle Paul...that we are not alone in this.

You wrote: "It seems we can restrict and constrict our own availability to Holy Spirit by listening to further opinions, as if a throng of lies press in against us.  Christ’s path is “straight”, Matt 3:3; it is considered a “worn path” by definition even rutted, so it’s not an unseen trail but the foot must stay steady in the ruts. Going along it one expects pressure through Satan’s sifting; even an uncomfortable, sometimes painful feeling with each step as the path narrows along the side of our foot. 
That word “sift” of Luke 22:31, the “inward agitation to try one’s faith to the verge of overthrow” is Satan’s useful tool throwing us off course of the straight path.  As hard as it is, we are determined to keep our feet in the worn path of Christ.  And along the way are those who have diverted off onto their own paths"

I think of how we can twist our ankle or trip and fall in such a narrow rut , if we don't watch our steps closely...Peter said Christ left us an example..so that we could follow his steps...1 Peter 2:21 ...and we know that Satan is not going to let any who follow Christ have an easy stroll.  It is good to have encouraging reminders.   (Acts 14:22)  (1Peter 4:12-14)
We should be keeping a close eye on where our foot goes otherwise in this narrow rut we could trip and fall.  Getting easily distracted can be dangerous, since Satan's "useful tool" is all around those trying to throw us off the narrow course of truth.  Whenever any man speaks or writes (us included) we need to pray, and pray again...looking to God's word for the truth.  We must try to let God's word come from us and not opinions. (easier said than done..because we are imperfect humans)     Romans 3:4 "Let God be found true though every man a liar"
 Sometimes it is best to not look away when we hear a strange voice...Jesus said my sheep know my voice...so that should help some.  Years ago, I saw many people on the forums debating everything said...and spending much time trying to prove their points...sometimes it is best (as I wish that I had found back then)...that just leaving the appropriate scripture (God's word)...is enough and be finished with it...because Jesus sheep will hear his voice...those not his sheep will just look to debate you.  Yes I believe it when you say that...
we can restrict and constrict our own availability to Holy Spirit by listening to further opinions as if a throng of lies press in against us.  There are many opinions out there and it is wise to be selective as to when we should give our time and thoughts to them.   

Thanks again Peely....Very good and useful post.

May God's blessings be on all those seeking the truth...and may he calm our inner thoughts and worries.

Agape, Obe







 

Last Edited By: Obadiah Nov 27 15 8:20 AM. Edited 2 times.

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