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Jun 15 16 2:00 AM

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Mark 13:9 “But be on your guard; for they will deliver you to the courts,and you will be flogged in the synagogues,and you will stand before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them."

Matthew 10:18 "and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake,as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles."

Luke 21:12 “But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you,delivering you to the synagogues and prisons,bringing you before kings and governors for My name’s sake."

Isnt it interesting Christ predicted that Anointed listening to Christ would be bought before "governors" "kings" and "gentiles" in some way in regards to what Christ would have to say in these last days?

This means,these 3 groups,are NOT listening to Christ.

What stood out,was that there would be "governors" in the last days. How wonderfully prophetic! Nearly 2,000 years ago,Jah knew there would those who would be "governors" within Anointed as a group. Why would the GB call themselves "The GOVERNING body". They could have called themselves anything,so why that? They are proving who they are,by fulfilling prophecy,by using the term "governors" in describing themselves...because they are NOT listening to Christ. They have so asleep spiritually,they cant even see they have chosen a title for themselves which fulfills prophecy!!  This of course exposes them as UNfaithufl Anointed.

Of course this means they cannot,and do not represent Christ,if Christ's disciples will have to witness to these self appointed "governors",who are such amongst spiritually asleep Anointed as a group.

Which proves,those being "governors" within Anointed,are self anointed and NEED to hear from those Anointed being faithful to Christ. If the Anointed "governors" were listening to Christ,would they need Anointed who ARE listening to Christ,to come and witness to them? The "governors" have stopped listening to Christ,even though they are Anointed!

Who could have imagined this kind of spiritual condition going on within Anointed in our time? Esp when the GB keep proclaiming there is a "spiritual paradise" within JWs. Which cannot be,because the verses go on to explain,that "kings" and "gentiles" also will receive a Witness from faithful Anointed who are listening to Christ.

This is all going on within JWs! The 3 groups "governors" "kings" and "gentiles" are within JWs.

As we have come to know "gentiles" are non-anointed within JWs,but esp the "elders" who have invaded The Temple of Anointed priests,by stealing their Priestly Role within JWs.

The above verse also says that "kings" will receive a witness. When the GB are removed,its by "kings" who are Anointed who back the organisation,thinking its "gods organisation". They are branded on the forehead and hand in thinking this! So before they are Kings,when they remove the Harlot...Jesus is saying,these will receive a witness. This can include 2 time frames within these Anointed. BEFORE they act and become "kings” for a short period...and after they act and remove the Harlot. This would definitely include when they have made themselves “kings” by removing the Harlot. We know the "Witness" they will receive will be thorough! It has to be!

Are the GB “governors” receiving a witness,even though they are protected within their “ivory tower”? Yes,Christ's Anointed Witnesses through the internet is reaching the “governors” Christ spoke about.

Are those who are "branded" (666) amongst Anointed receiving a witness...even before they become "kings"? Christ says it will happen. It IS happening. Would he want those of his bride to be warned before they become "kings" so they are not sealed outside Gods kingdom? Of course! We can be sure all THREE groups mentioned above will hear from Christ! He says so!

But what was interesting was that Christ predicted amongst Anointed,those who would be "governors". That there exists a “Body” of such Anointed “governors” is proof the Anointed within this group have stopped listening to Christ. Isnt that amasing?

UNfaithful Anointed within the GB have embraced a term predicted by Christ,that identifies them as ones needing to be witnessed to by Christ's Faithful Anointed,even though they themselves are Anointed ! They NEED this witness,because they have become a “body” of "governors"...and thus UNfaithful to Christ! 

Last Edited By: Jahsdisciple Jun 15 16 2:05 AM. Edited 1 time

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#1 [url]

Jun 15 16 4:37 PM

Why would Anointed who are faithful to Christ go before "governors" "kings" and "gentiles" are within JWs?

Christ said "for My sake,as a testimony to them".

Representing Christ,means representing HIS testimony. This means the 3 groups within JWs,have NOT received His "testimony".

WHY for "Christ's sake"? Because the "governors" of JWs,have stopped those within the organisation,from listening to Christ! If Christ Himself says "for my sake",then those within the Beast organisation are NOT listening to Christ,who is the source of Truth for Anointed,NOT the self appointed "governors".

Anointed would need the "testimony" of Christ,because up to them receiving that from Christ,they have NOT received anything from Him because of the "governors".

Truth comes through Christ,no-one else. The organisation has belittled Christ as the foremost Priest within Gods Temple.

Important point.
If the "elder/gentiles" are trampling Gods temple Priests,this is certainly the case with Jahs foremost Priest and cornerstone of the Temple being trampled. Christ is being Trampled within JWs,because NONE within it,are taught to listen to Christ!

Which is why the "governors" are constantly wrong about prophecy. Look at how many times "generation" has changed since the 1920's! If Christ used this word,then He is the One to help people understand it! But because the "governors" dont listen to Him,they need to hear "testimony" from Him as to what it is! So do the "kings" and "gentiles"  within JWs. In regards to "generation" they have NOT received "testimony" from Christ!

If the "governors" are rebelling against Christ,will those ANOINTED they "govern" hear from Christ? If Christ is being “trampled” by the dual world power of the Harlot and Beast,will they be listening to the One being Trampled? No!

In so many ways,esp Anointed within JWs,have not heard the "testimony" from Christ their Groom about what is "prophetic Truth". Imagine that. Being invited to be part of Christ's Bride,but NOT listening to the One who is your spiritual head!

This is why Christ said"for My sake,as a testimony to them". His Bride,needs to hear from their spiritual Head and be told WHY they are not listening to Him. Blame for this rests solely upon the shoulders of satan's UNfaithful Anointed "governors",whose “lying messages” have stopped His Bride from listening to Him. Rev12:7.

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#2 [url]

Jun 16 16 1:33 PM

Hi JD,
Good post, thank you!

Your words:  "Representing Christ,means representing HIS testimony. This means the 3 groups within JWs,have NOT received His "testimony".  WHY for "Christ's sake"? Because the "governors" of JWs,have stopped those within the organisation,from listening to Christ!" 

Yes,and the ultimate tool to bring the testimony to a halt is through disfellowshiping. 

“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."  Matt 24:9


Disfellowshiping builds the wall of hate that stops spiritual Jews and Gentiles alike in the organization from listening to those giving their continued testimony of Christ.

 "At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,  and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.

"
This wall of hate is touted as a wall of loving provision by God. If this wall was established on love, it could be penetrated easily. We could see love in the eyes of those we come across.  I haven't seen it yet in JWs I've run into when in town.  It is pounded in JWs by its leaders, the anointed false prophets and enforced by it’s elder “princes”, that advocating disfellowshiping is a loving act to bring one to repentance. Yet, we see that betrayal of the GB against their own brothers is a hate-filled act.

 Verse 12 says, “Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold.” 

How soon the love grows cold toward a disfellowshiped one, especially one who gives solid testimony of Christ, and it is interesting that it says "the love of most will grow cold, "many" will turn away from the faith toward betrayal.   And how Satan continues to attack relentlessly through the "many" to stop one from testifying. 

“but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.”

For those who do, they are the instruments Christ uses to declare his truth ‘for his sake’; we can be assured the work will be sufficiently accomplished, according to what the Father sees fit. 

“And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.” 

Thanks again.  Hope you and everyone out there are doing okay!
love,
peely

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#3 [url]

Jun 16 16 7:08 PM

That was a great post JD.
Yes you are correct..the GB fails to listen to Jesus and fails to teach correctly.  The constant changes since the early years like 1900 and even throughout the succeeding years show that most of the literature is no longer being taught because it is quite frankly...wrong.


The Society will "cherry pick" and misapply some writings, but when looked at in it's original literature (which is forbidden by the Organization) ...it becomes quite clear that they are "making up a lot as they go along"..."New light " ?.......seems to have a short shelf life.



It is interesting how they took that title "Governing Body for themselves.....the three groups ...this group of Governors, the "Kings" and the Gentiles are getting the "witness" that is being given to them.  I am very certain that they got wind of the demonstrations that we all did last summer.    (Watchtower is the Wild Beast....Governing Body is the Harlot).    There is no way that the GB, the anointed still within the organization and the gentile elder "princes" did not hear of it.     (There were probably very secret "priveledged" meetings of those taking the lead to discuss how to deal with it...in the congregations...and at the conventions).     Being the way the JWs are (at least when I was still in)...they can really run a pretty good rumor mill.  Even though they are told that gossiping is forbidden...they do it anyway.  We may not see all the pictures that were taken by them of us or hear about them discussing it much (even many of the JW forums outlaw such talk by censoring the sites)...Many of those still in the congregations are still careful lest they be disfellowshipped, I am pretty sure that the "rank and file" publishers do share the information... (that they feel priveledged to be "in the know" about)...they are probably just very selective about sharing. 

Yes Peely...you are correct...the loving provision fails to be loving.  Many that I come across show no love at all. (even many that I knew close for a long time)    It seems that we are considered "mentally diseased" apostates and are to be avoided at all cost.  A few who I think are on the verge of "waking up" but afraid to speak up will still nod to me and even some will talk lightly.  But alas ...for the most part it is very "cold"  out there.

I hope everyone is well.
Agape Obe 

PS....thes advertisements that YUKU has allowed are really annoying....it makes writing difficult at times. 

JD....I put a link for Paulo's post that he wrote about the "hovah" and what he discovered....it is on the JWs still Catholic thread that you put up.

Last Edited By: Obadiah Jun 16 16 7:10 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#4 [url]

Jun 18 16 1:52 PM

Good post JD. Thank you for putting it up.
I would like to respond to a few points you make, adding to them what spirit has shown.

"What stood out, was that there would be "governors" in the last days."

The "governers" among the anointed, are not unique to the last days only.
Some are chosen within the body of Christ, to "govern" those priests who are still immature (1Cor.4:1-2,15; Gal.4:2; Eph.4:13; Prov.8:16). They are the "stewards"/governers, of Christ's contemporary household (Luke12:42). The mature and experienced are set over the management and "guidance" of the household, by God and Christ (1Cor.12:28), to be a foundation of faith (1Cor.3:8-10; Eph.2:19-20), according to the "provisions" they serve (Luke12:42-43).
The problem arises, when such a governer/steward, abuses the authority he was given (Luke12:45,47; Mark10:42-43), by abusing his fellow slaves with beatings, and a lack of proper food at the proper time time. According to prophecy; during the Great Tribulation, an abusive steward would arise to join forces with Gentiles, and by means of that Gentile force, dominate all of God's Temple priesthood and household. That governing body would empower the Gentile force with an aura of divinity, even authorizing it to "kill" any who refuse to worship it.
That steward... that governing body, would be the ones needing a witness from Christ, through his faithful ones. They are mentioned in the book of Revelation, where Christ sends them a message concerning their need for repentance. That message would be delivered by the faithful who in the time of the end, correctly interpret Christ's disclosure of what that revealed message, contains,
and to whom it is directed.
Yet as you stated, the "Governing Body" themselves have clarified their position, not only within God's anointed household, but within prophecy; by the adoption of that title.
Yet they are proving to be "wicked stewards". Not only are they failing to receive and serve God's household, truths from Christ...
they prevent any other slave or steward, from doing so...
and "kill" any who faithfully attempt to (by means of the Gentile Beast, whom they direct, and have empowered).
They have accepted a rulership based in Satan's world and power...
not based in the authority, truth, and power of Christ.

Of course, you rightly identify the "Gentiles" as being those not anointed, who now trample God's Temple stones (1Pet.2:5,9-10; Matt.24:2; Rev.13:7; 11:2; 2:9).
They are also depicted as the collective "Wild Beast" from the sea (Rev.13:1; Isa.57:20)... and the "abomination of desolation" that "stands in the holy place" (Matt.24:15; Dan.11:31; 2Thess.2:4).
These too, receive a witness (Matt.10:18; John16:2; Rev.11:7). These too, can be viewed, as counterfeit "kings" (Rev.9:7,3; Isa.23:8; Rev.13:15; 2Thess.2:4).

"The above verse also says that "kings" will receive a witness. When the GB are removed, it is by "kings" who are Anointed who back the organisation, thinking that it is "Gods organisation"... So before they are Kings, when they remove the Harlot...Jesus is saying, these will receive a witness. This can include 2 time frames within these Anointed. BEFORE they act and become "kings” for a short period...and after they act and remove the Harlot. This would definitely include when they have made themselves “kings” by removing the Harlot.
Are those who are "branded" (666) amongst Anointed receiving a witness...even before they become "kings"? Christ says it will happen. It IS happening. Would he want those of his bride to be warned before they become "kings" so they are not sealed outside Gods kingdom?
"

I hope to add to these thoughts, by clarifying when the anointed become kings....
what they can choose to do with that royal authority...
how they receive a kingdom,
and how they become sealed into their kingdom of choice.
Of course, understanding those things helps us to grasp more about who these "kings" are, who need a witness to be given them, for the sake of Christ.

We have wrongly been taught by the wicked steward, that the anointed do not become kings until they literally die, and are resurrected as spirits in heaven.
Regarding the anointed "kings" still captive inside the organization,
  we do well to clarify when they became kings, and receive the witness of Mark13:9.

Are they given a witness as kings, before they reign as kings with the Beast?
Yes. They can receive a witness as kings, even before they are sealed as rulers within the kingdom of the Beast.
By examining the following scriptures, we can see when anointed begin ruling, and when the unfaithful receive their witness of revealed truths.

First, let us examne if an anointed one is a king, even before receiving a kingdom.

Rev.17:12 “The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13 They have one purpose and will give their (existing) power and authority to the beast. "
Notice that receiving a kingdom with the Beast, is through a surrendering of their existing royal authority and power, to the Beast.
Their kingship, IS their authority and power. Do anointed have "authority and power", before they receive their kingdom of choice?

   "I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. Nevertheless, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven." (Luke10:19).
(Ps.91:13-15; Mark16:17-18)
   Rev.1:5 "and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen."
   Rev.5:9 "And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll
    and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
    and with your blood you purchased for God
    persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
    and they reign on the earth.”

  Do they already have a "crown"? Yes... a crown they must guard, and not allow to be taken from them (Rev.3:11).

Jesus said that "more" kingship would be given to those, who already "had"... IF they kept and were proving faithful with, the "little" royal authority and power they were first given (Matt.13:12; Rev.3:8).
THIS IS WHERE THE FORK IN THE ROAD, IS.
There are those given royal authority and power who are faithful. Let us see what the faithful do, with their royal authority ("crowns").
   Rev.4:10-11 "the twenty-four elders fall down before the One seated on the throne, and they worship Him who lives forever and ever. They cast their crowns before the throne, saying: 11 “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for You created all things; by Your will they exist, and came to be.”
Can you see that those who are faithful, use their "crown" (royal authority and power) in the service and worship of God?
While kings, they submit completely, to God and Christ. They credit Him with their receiving life, with salvation (Rev.7:10), and that God alone deserves their fear and praise (Rev.14:7; 19:5).
   Rev.5:13-14 "And I heard every creature in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be praise and honor and glory and power forever and ever.” 14 And the four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped."
Notice that the faithful... "fall down and worship" God and the Lamb.
Notice that an anointed king, can do the same, toward Satan... “All these things will I give you, if you will fall down and worship me.” (Matt.4:9)
That is exactly what the unfaithful "kings", do....
   "People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority (crowns) to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?” (Rev.13:4) (Rev.13:1)
Rather than ascribe honor to God (Ps.113:5) ("Michael"), those who worship the Beast (Rev.13:7-8) credit IT with salvation and divinity, deserving of their fear and praise.
These mislead and captive anointed (Rev.13:7,10) have surrendered their "crowns", to the Beast.
Please notice the contrast, to the faithful anointed at Rev.4:10...
"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but will receive one hour of authority as kings, along with the beast. 13 These kings have one purpose: to give their power and authority to the beast." (Rev.17:12-13)

Anointed kings can choose to reign with Christ (Rev.3:21) or with the Beast (Rev.17:12).
That choice is made, when they surrender their royal authority and power to their master of choice.
Once they exercise their royal authority and power...
 either serving in subjection to God and Christ,
 or in subjection to Satan and his organization...
they choose a kingdom.
   Once the Harlot is removed (and those who have given their royal authority to the Beast, begin to rule wth it)
all "kings" are sealed as royal servants/angelic messengers, of God,
  or of Satan (Rev.12:7; 17:12-14).
Whichever kingdom they choose (Christ's, or Satan's), they will receive full rulership with it, as they serve it's "king of kings" (Rev.9:11; 19:16).

So to conclude,
the anointed "kings" who receive a testimony from Christ, through his angel (Rev.22:6,16),
are kings before they receive their kingdom of choice.
They will take their "crown" (royal authority) and either exercise it in the service of Christ, or in the service of Satan's Beast.
The Beast's kings will receive a witness, both before (as a warning to repent)
and after they have choosen a master/recipient of their crown.
But after they are sealed as horns of the Beast (after the removal of the Harlot);
the testimony of Truth will only be one of condemnation.
  
I will post this at the Blog, so that the scriptures will pop up.
It is located here: (http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/06/when-do-anointed-become-kings.html).

Last Edited By: Pearl Doxsey Jun 18 16 3:42 PM. Edited 3 times.

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#5 [url]

Jun 18 16 4:06 PM

"Some are chosen within the body of Christ, to "govern" those priests who are still immature (1Cor.4:1-2,15; Gal.4:2; Eph.4:13; Prov.8:16). They are the "stewards"/governers, of Christ's contemporary household (Luke12:42). The mature and experienced are set over the management and "guidance" of the household, by God and Christ (1Cor.12:28), to be a foundation of faith (1Cor.3:8-10; Eph.2:19-20), according to the "provisions" they serve (Luke12:42-43)."

Jesus used a very specific term here in 
Luke 21:12 “But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you,delivering you to the synagogues and prisons,bringing you before kings and governors for My name’s sake."

If The term "governor" is correct in connection with what you say,then this means Jesus was saying "immature" anointed would bear witness to  more "mature" Anointed "govenors" within those Anointed who have awakened. This cant be the case.  If anything,the mature would be bearing witness to the immature. So to apply "governors" within those who have awakened is not what Christ was saying.

The scripture applies the word in the context of awakened Anointed witnessing to those Anointed associating with "kings" and "gentiles" still within JWs. Awakened Anointed have left those behind,but bear witness to them,no longer as "jehovah's witnesses" but as "my witnesses" of Christ. Acts 1:8.

Anointed,weather newly awakened or not, ONLY answer to Christ! He is their head,no-one else. Can "immature" gain knowledge from more experienced? Yes! But the more mature are not "govenors" according to the context and use of the word by Christ. :-)

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#6 [url]

Jun 18 16 7:49 PM

Hello JD,
Here is a good link, that describes the relationship between a mature priest, and one that is yet "young" (1John2:12-14).
It is (http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/01/elijah-turns-hearts.html).
You wrote;
"If The term "governor" is correct in connection with what you say, then this means Jesus was saying "immature" anointed would bear witness to  more "mature" Anointed "govenors" within those Anointed who have awakened. This cant be the case."
This assumption about what I say, is not complete.
If a leader in the body of Christ (Heb.13:17) becomes a wicked steward,
they have obviously lost their spiritual maturity in Christ. Can such a regression and corruption happen? Yes (Heb.5:12; Col.2:19) (John15:4-5).
Can those who witness to truth, be as babes? Yes (Ps.8:2; Matt.11:25-26).

I did not say that stewards always remain more mature.
I said that a wicked steward will be witnessed to, by those who were in their charge, and under their guidance... however corrupt that guidance became.
Only after awakening to that corruption, can one who has been awoken by Christ, witness to those who were formerly their spiritual fathers (2Chron.30:7-8; Ps.78:7-8; Eze.18:20).

Christ may appoint a steward who is mature and set "him" over Christ's household of slaves. That steward can then turn wicked. Otherwise, the wicked steward that Christ himself described as previously appointed by him, could not possibly exist (Luke12:42,45). 
It is not necessary for those who bear witness to the wicked steward, to never have been under his oversight.
In fact, all who repent of their idolatry and come out of the great tribulation,
were previously under the wicked steward. Only those who wake up and come out, can bear witness to that steward.

When you say,
"But the more mature are not "govenors" according to the context and use of the word by Christ."...
I suggest contemplating the relationship between the members of Christ's body, and how they have various assignments and responsibilities.
"Guidance", "stewards", "foundation" (apostles and prophets), and "leadership" are all such positions. 
There is no guarantee that anyone in any of those positions, will remain faithful.
Any of them can lose their maturity, and no longer be fit for their original assignment.
If they lost their connection with Christ through unfaithfulness, they lose holy spirit.
One need not remain mature and faithful in Christ, to still be in a governing position over the present body of Christ (2Thess.2:1-2; 2Cor.11:12-13).
That is proven in the scenario which Revelation describes...
 ...The removal of the Harlot, long after she has "fallen" spiritually (Rev.8:10-11; 9:1).
"She" is removed, by those formerly under her.
"She" is also condemned, witnessed to, and judged (1Cor.6:3; 2Cor.10:6), by those who were formerly under her,
and killed by her authority over them.
If a replacement steward is chosen by Christ,
 they are naturally being empowered by Christ to be mature and responsible.
This does not mean that they were never immature, nor never under the steward they are now replacing and condemning with the words of Christ.

 

Last Edited By: Pearl Doxsey Jun 18 16 7:58 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#7 [url]

Jun 19 16 2:10 AM

I have been reading all the comments on JDS post and what you say Pearl goes well with scripture but in practice how does that work? Lets use an example here, in this case YOU. You are God's prophet and a mature anointed one too. Lets suppose that you become a wicked steward how in practice is another anointed who is appointed by Christ going to show you that you have become wicked and Therefore no longer apt to be governor over the others, considering that we are imperfect and dont want to recognize that, this may result in Divisions. I hope you can see my point. How does this work in practice?

Last Edited By: Pearl Doxsey Jun 19 16 8:00 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#8 [url]

Jun 19 16 4:58 AM

"I suggest contemplating the relationship between the members of Christ's body, and how they have various assignments and responsibilities.
"Guidance", "stewards", "foundation" (apostles and prophets), and "leadership" are all such positions." 

The simply question is,did CHRIST use the word "governor" as you applied it? No! There are stewards etc,but they do NOT carry the meaning and context that CHRIST applied to the word. Christ used the word to describe Anointed who are UNfaithful Anointed. NO-ONE else. To not see this significance,is to then diminish the fulfillment of prophecy in regards to the GB,who have fulfilled bible prophecy by using a term Christ used.

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Jun 19 16 6:08 AM

Hi JD,

It was by your example of Antipas that this simple-minded one has learned to reach back to the original meaning of Greek and Hebrew in order to understand certain terms; and for that, I thank you.

For Mark 13:9; Matt 10:18; Luke 21:12, the word hēgemōn, according to Strong’s can mean:a leader, i.e. chief person (or figuratively, place) of a province:—governor, prince, ruler

So, basically it is considered a “leader of any kind” according to Thayer’s.  There are translations that prefer to use “ruler” for Mark 13:9 instead of “governor in the above scriptures.  NKJV, Darby, KJV, and others. 

In the NKJV it varies with the scripture.  In Mark, “rulers” is used for the Greek, while in Matt 10:18 “governors” is used.  In Luke 21:12, NKJV reverts back to “rulers”.

Prov 29:12 - "If a ruler listens to lies, all his officials become wicked."

Once we listen to lies, our Father becomes Satan, the Father of the lie.  Clearly, a leader under Satan could be considered mature.  Micah 3:9

“But Jesus having called them to him, says to them, Ye know that those who are esteemed to rule over the nations exercise lordship over them; and their great men exercise authority over them; but it is not thus among you; but whosoever would be great among you, shall be your minister; and whosoever would be first of you shall be bondman of all.”  Mar 10:442-44

Just some thoughts to add to everyone’s comments.  

Good to see you here, Rose petal!

love,
peely

 

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#10 [url]

Jun 19 16 8:04 AM

Hello Rosa,
Good to see you here.
You asked, "how in practice is another anointed who is appointed by Christ going to show you that you have become wicked and Therefore no longer apt to be governor over the others"?

Everything that is shown.... whether done in harmony with God's spirit, or against it,
is shown through scripture. The scriptures fully equip us to prove every good work, and every wicked deed... every fine and true teaching, and every ensnaring deception.
The wicked stewards are described for us in detail within the scriptures.
If we are...
drunk on Satan's vine,
cohorting with Gentiles ("confirmed drunkards") and using their muscle to "beat" our fellow slaves,
teaching doctrines that are from ourselves and not from the scriptures,
"buying and selling" position and prestige, in exchange for worship, money, obedience, and power.
pressuring Christ's slaves to "eat foods sacrificed to idols" and to "commit spiritual fornication" with such idols...
  ...then we are a wicked steward.
Such failings are easily condemned, by means of scripture.
Jesus stated clearly, that we can discern the good from the bad (Matt.7:20)

Faithful stewards give freely, what they are freely given, and expect nothing in return.
They know that the reward for their hard work, rests with God.
They hope that what they offer from Christ, will be accepted... for the sake of the one accepting it.
The BIble depicts such ones as loving mothers. Accordingly, such stewards slave for the welfare of those in their charge,
out of love, and without thought of reward from their children. Such mothers only hope for the approval of their husbands.
Yet it still rests with each child,
how the mother's provisions are received by them.

Regarding divisions...
the scriptures once again, make clear who is in harmony with Christ, and who has left his truth.
That is the only "division" that matters.
When all are in harmony with Christ, all are in harmony.
Divisions only result, when some have left Christ.
Again... identifying them who have left the order and standard of Christ,
is done through the scriptures, and the support of spirit to use them with clarity.
Divisions are expected,
because "stumbling blocks must come", through the "weeds"/"tares",
whom Christ said would grow alongside the "wheat", until the final harvest is done.

Last Edited By: Pearl Doxsey Jun 19 16 8:12 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#11 [url]

Jun 19 16 8:10 AM

Jahsdisciple wrote:
"I suggest contemplating the relationship between the members of Christ's body, and how they have various assignments and responsibilities.
"Guidance", "stewards", "foundation" (apostles and prophets), and "leadership" are all such positions." 

The simply question is,did CHRIST use the word "governor" as you applied it? No! There are stewards etc,but they do NOT carry the meaning and context that CHRIST applied to the word. Christ used the word to describe Anointed who are UNfaithful Anointed. NO-ONE else. To not see this significance,is to then diminish the fulfillment of prophecy in regards to the GB,who have fulfilled bible prophecy by using a term Christ used.

Please look at the Greek interlinear for Matt.10:18 (http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/mat10.pdf).Although it has been translated as "governors", it simply means "leaders". Do you see that?If you doubt that there are divinely assigned leaders/chief princes, in the house of God, please read Acts1:20; 15:22; 20:28; Rom.15:18; Heb.13:7,17,24; 1Thess.5:12. Now please consider the Greek of 1Cor.12:28 (http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/1co12.pdf)See the English translation to the right? Do you see the word "governments"?That part of Christ's body is translated that way, because it comes from the Greek:[kubernhseis kubernEseis G2941 n_ Acc Pl f STEERings pilotage(p)] "steerings" or "pilotage". Those who steer and pilot the household of God, are leaders, governors, and chief princes. They govern, oversee and direct, Christ's current Body, as Christ directs and uses them in that capacity, so that there is order. God's posted watchmen and prophets to His nation, are a part of that group (1Cor.14:32-33), as are the apostles (the foundation of all the living stones of God's City/Temple) (Eph.2:20-22). They are leaders among anointed, and provide spirit's direction as  to truth, divine command, warnings, foresight, and faith.

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#12 [url]

Jun 19 16 8:45 AM

Peely,
I appreciate your comment...
"Clearly, a leader under Satan could be considered mature.  Micah 3:9"
It is true, that Christ tells us about "the deep things of Satan" (Rev.2:24).
Such demonic exhalations from the depths of the abyss, do indeed seem full of mature wisdom (Job 41:32; Matt.11:25; 2Cor.11:14).

When Jesus spoke of the wicked steward, depicted at Luke 16:1-2,
he said of him...
“The master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly. For the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own kind than are the people of the light." (Luke16:8)
"People of light" (1Thess.5:4-5; 1Pet.2:9) are not "shrewd" in dealing with worldly matters. Yet wicked stewards do have that "shrewdness". It is a maturity about Satan's world, and how it works. Such wicked stewards wrongly apply their worldly desires and knowledge, to how they manage the workings of Christ's household. That naturally results in "beatings" over power and control, "buying and selling", making forbidden alliances, etc.
So yes... the wicked steward does have a form of "maturity".
Jesus commends this particular steward of Luke 16,
because he was shrewd enough to use his worldly power, to "make friends" with other slaves, by "cancelling their debt" to their master.
He made peace with those in debt, by using his power to aid the others before his ousting by the master.
We each have a debt to Christ.
He has given us "talents" of golden truth... to use, previous to his return.
When he returns, he expects us to render to him, his gold, plus the rewards of our fine investments.
The wicked steward does not allow us to "invest"/use, Christ's "gold", and so we remain indebted to Christ.
A shrewd steward would help us to cancel that debt, by using the fine truths we have forwarded to him.
Instead, our present wicked steward only publishes doctrines of Gentile writing committees.
 

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#13 [url]

Jun 19 16 11:05 AM

Hi Pearl and Rose petal,

Pearl, your words:  
Regarding divisions...the scriptures once again, make clear who is in harmony with Christ, and who has left his truth.
That is the only "division" that matters.
When all are in harmony with Christ, all are in harmony.
Divisions only result, when some have left Christ.
Again... identifying them who have left the order and standard of Christ,
is done through the scriptures, and the support of spirit to use them with clarity.
Divisions are expected,
because "stumbling blocks must come", through the "weeds"/"tares",
whom Christ said would grow alongside the "wheat", until the final harvest is done.

Going along with that thought, one's actions make manifest whether that heart is sealed as a servant to their head, either in Christ or Satan; and as you say, Holy Spirit helps us to discern the good from the bad.  I do believe this sealing happens to both "fathers and sons" within the Body.  The scriptures you mentioned in 1 John seem to testify to this:

"I am writing to you, dear children,
because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.
I am writing to you, fathers,
because you know him who is from the beginning.
I am writing to you, young men,
because you have overcome the evil one.

I write to you, dear children,
because you know the Father.
I write to you, fathers,
because you know him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men,
because you are strong,
and the word of God lives in you,
and you have overcome the evil one." (1 Tim 2:19)

It is also encourging to know that "everything exposed by the light becomes visible-and everything that is illuminated becomes light". Since the Father and Christ are both light, we would recognize this light carried within the heart of those in Christ.  Eph 5:13    

Jesus told the Pharisees, "Though you do not know him, I know him.  If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word."  John 8:55
Yet to those faithful chosen ones, Jesus said, "my Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."  John 10:29

We have the assurance that through the unity of those sealed in Christ, that "believers" will recognize and discern their teachings as from Christ.

"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message....then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you love me."  John 17:20-23

love,
peely
 

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#14 [url]

Jun 20 16 7:39 AM

Hi Obadiah

You said,
It is interesting how they took that title "Governing Body for themselves.....the three groups ...this group of Governors, the "Kings" and the Gentiles are getting the "witness" that is being given to them.  I am very certain that they got wind of the demonstrations that we all did last summer.    (Watchtower is the Wild Beast....Governing Body is the Harlot).    There is no way that the GB, the anointed still within the organization and the gentile elder "princes" did not hear of it. 

I wonder if this had any bearing on the theme of this summer’s convention, to remain loyal...and of course, this means to the organization and the Harlot.  Yet, it is backfiring as the ex-JW community, as well as among many still in, who find it appalling and are loudly voicing their objections. As Satan tightens his reigns, we can then give a subsequently louder trumpet call. Those who will continue in blind loyalty are like the fish stuck to Satan's "scales" in this time of the defining line of the harvest.  

“Son of man, set your face against Pharaoh king of Egypt, and prophesy against him, and against all Egypt.  
Speak, and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God:
“Behold, I am against you,
O Pharaoh king of Egypt,
O great monster who lies in the midst of his rivers,
Who has said, ‘My River is my own;
I have made it for myself.’

 But I will put hooks in your jaws,
And cause the fish of your rivers to stick to your scales;
I will bring you up out of the midst of your rivers,
And all the fish in your rivers will stick to your scales.

 I will leave you in the wilderness,
You and all the fish of your rivers;
You shall fall on the open field;
You shall not be picked up or gathered.
I have given you as food
To the beasts of the field
And to the birds of the heavens.

 No longer shall it be the confidence of the house of Israel, but will remind them of their iniquity when they turned to follow them.
Then they shall know that I am the Lord God.”’” 

‘In that day I will cause the horn of the house of Israel to spring forth, and I will open your mouth to speak in their midst.
Then they shall know that I am the Lord.’”  Ezek 29:2-5,16,21 

"I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out, with all your army, horses,
and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords."  Ezek 38:4

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#15 [url]

Jun 23 16 5:37 PM

Hi Peely,
I'm not sure if the organization chose the 2016 theme for their summer convention on loyalty due to our demonstrations...but maybe it had an influence. Thanks for the scriptures you put in the last post.  Loyally sticking to the scales and how hooks will be put in his jaws.
Thanks for that information on the word Jesus used... (hegemon)... it can be translated to be  "chief person, leader , ruler etc...just as you have said.  Jesus may have used this word to show that the faithful anointed ones who bore witness to truth would be brought before those taking the lead (Or in most cases self-appointed leaders).  This has been going on since Jesus time.  Jesus himself was brought before the "leaders" of the Jewish nation of which he was a part.  They handed him over to Pontius Pilate...the Roman ruler of the area.  Jesus was even brought before Herod...the "ruler" of the Jewish nation.  Ultimately the Jewish Sanhedrin considered themselves the real rulers of the nation...but they did use the Romans and others to carry out their dirty work. The Apostles as well as other early members of Christ's body were brought before the ruling Sanhedrin of the Jewish people also.  Also of note ...Herod killed James the brother of John...(Acts 12:   1 About that time, King Herod reached out to inflict harm on some who belonged to the church. 2 He had James, the brother of John, put to death with the sword. 3 Seeing that this pleased the Jews, he proceeded to seize Peter )
Throughout the centuries the faithful anointed as well as other faithful Christians were brought before the "ruling heirarchy" of the organized Christian church and accused of apostasy, (heretics)  Sometimes these "rulers" served in the political positions as well. The faithful ones were persecuted, tortured, and killed (some burned at the stake, beheaded, torn apart and such).  It was always because they stayed faithful to truth and did not compromise with the rulers of the "church".  
Very early on when the "trinity" issue came up in about the third century...many faithful ones came up against resistance from others within the church. There were those who considered themselves as the leaders even though Jesus warned against "lording it over your brothers" (Matthew 20:25 ,26)
The issue was "settled" by Emperor Constantine (the Gentile) in favor of the Trinitarians in order to keep his empire from fracturing.  We can only imagine what happened to those faithful ones who did not compromise to this issue. 

The english transliteration of the word Jesus used (hegemon) can be any of those words that you found...even governor of course...
The Romans used the following word for what we call governor... "Propraetor" ...which is most often translated as Governor in the English language. There were also other words describing such duties.....magistrate...chief magistrate....sometimes prefect was used...depending on the level of "governorship".  Propraetor  seems to be the top of the line for this position though.  The Romans had their own words...just as the Greeks and Jews had their own words.
Bible translators don't always take a lot of care in choosing the word that they put in the scripture.  This may be part of the reason that they translate the same Greek or Hebrew words in so many different ways.   It is important that we recognize this and do not hold the words that translators decide to use as divinely inspired.  The holy spirit and our own humility is what will help us to discern truth.  Thank you for pointing out the word and it's basic meanings.

It is also interesting that Pontius Pilate was referred to as a Governor also.  He was what the Romans called a "Proconsul"...this was an appointee by the Propraetor of the larger area.  The Proconsul served as a "local governor" but he carried much weight in running things.  Pontius Pilate was called Proconsul and also Prefect, depending on circumstances.

Agape, Obadiah

Last Edited By: Obadiah Jun 23 16 6:58 PM. Edited 3 times.

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#16 [url]

Jun 24 16 10:05 AM

Obadiah:  Throughout the centuries the faithful anointed as well as other faithful Christians were brought before the "ruling heirarchy" of the organized Christian church and accused of apostasy, (heretics)  Sometimes these "rulers" served in the political positions as well. The faithful ones were persecuted, tortured, and killed (some burned at the stake, beheaded, torn apart and such).  It was always because they stayed faithful to truth and did not compromise with the rulers of the "church".  

I was thinking the same thing, Obe, since God’s word was made available for all in Christ to heed, from the moment Jesus left the earth until now.  Although we are now at the peak of the harrowing battle against truth and lies,each one has faced their own battle brought on by those who used power and authority to crush anointed ones, and all in Christ.  They either gave into it, or fought against it; and for doing so, faced great suffering yet many blessings by resisting Satan's spiritual and physical ploys that lead one away from Christ.

 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.  Indeed, I consider that I am not in the least inferior to these super-apostles.  For you bear it if someone makes slaves of you, or devours you, or takes advantage of you, or puts on airs, or strikes you in the face.  2 Cor 11:4,5,20,21

“And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—  among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.  Eph 2:1-3

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.  Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.  Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance,  and endurance produces character, and character produces hope,  and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.” 
Rom 5:1-5

Thanks for a good rundown on these leadership roles faced by the faithful over the years.  I do hope you and Pearl are doing well

love,
peely   

Last Edited By: peely Jun 24 16 12:06 PM. Edited 1 time.

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